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Velia

Velia

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I know you're not counting 'second faves', but I'd just like to throw this one in here for some appreciation (besides I already wrote it while writing about Dod):

My close second gives off a very different vibe... opposite, you might even say, and that goes to 'The Lord of Vampyrium'.

Holy-moly, I don't think I've had a quest elicit such feelings in me before. The atmosphere, the music, the events, the dialogue... it all wrapped up beautifully into a massive player-punch.

I felt a knotting sense of foreboding as the Myreque geared up to face Drakan. I felt a growing anxiety and sense of dread as the group clamoured through Castle Drakan, fully knowing what the final battle of the quest would be... helplessly watching as the Myreque get picked off one-by-one... all the while thinking "Is this really worth it?"

Then I got to the top of the castle, it wasn't so much 'being on Vampyrium' that shocked me; it was seeing just how few of the Myreque were left. An interesting, skill-testing, equal(ish) footing battle takes place and finally, victory... a hollow, hollow victory... even plunging Drakan's spear into his skull didn't feel satisfying after that.

And then... already left with a sense of ”My god, what have I done”, Vanescula takes that chance to backstab the remaining Myreque, taking Safalaan with her. I would have done the rest of the quest feeling broken, but then they just had to add in that ending cutscene... To this date, TLoV is the only thing to have made me cry in the entire game.

It isn't my number one quest purely for the negative feelings it gives (as well as those two final ring puzzles). It's amazing, it's exactly what the Mods wanted you to feel, but it just makes me feel so bad.
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Sliskean

26-Feb-2016 09:53:01

Prime Axiom
Jun Member 2019

Prime Axiom

Posts: 3,733Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
3) Broken Home.
2) Fate of the Gods.
1) Lord of Vamyprium

I'd like to point out that Safalaan might not actually be dead (not unless Jagex confirmed it in an interview or something). Sure, Vanescula bit him and all...but I'm pretty convinced that they were in love, and that her real plan was to turn him. It's awfully suspicious how she took away his body.

28-Feb-2016 04:55:50 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2016 05:00:30 by Prime Axiom

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 6,781Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Prime Axiom said:
3) Broken Home.
2) Fate of the Gods.
1) Lord of Vamyprium

I'd like to point out that Safalaan might not actually be dead (not unless Jagex confirmed it in an interview or something). Sure, Vanescula bit him and all...but I'm pretty convinced that they were in love, and that her real plan was to turn him. It's awfully suspicious how she took away his body.

Yeah, I doubt he's dead. There was the secret meeting in her room during the quest, and of course a single tithe wouldn't kill him, unless his arteries were completely severed or something.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

29-Feb-2016 19:15:24

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Abanderped said:
Dishonour among Thieves is my all-time favourite. Zamorak got the chance to redeem himself, Sliske is simply an awesome character to feature in quests. The lore in the quest was amazing, predominantly Pal*eera's body and journal, and also the other characters that featured (mainly Bilrach and Nomad) were awesome too.


I agree that DAT is a fantastic quest, but mostly for different reasons.

Bilrach's involvement was entirely unnecessary, he didn't even do anything in the quest. That could be easily fixed in post-quest dialogue, though. His account of the strange power is also potentially a lorefail, although there also might be one on the matter within the Mahjarrat memories themselves.

Selecting any of the characters involved based off from a player power poll was a mistake, but I was satisfied with Khazard and Daquarius winning. Nomad is the only one who didn't fit, and I've never found him to be an interesting character anyway. The only interesting thing about him was the identity of his master and, while I don't advocate Lucien as the only possibility, it would have been a much more satisfying reveal than what we got. Ultimately, Surok Magis should have played a role instead, with Zemouregal being the one to betray the team at the end.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Mar-2016 00:53:12

Velia

Velia

Posts: 2,835Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Chaos Lupus said:
Selecting any of the characters involved [in DAT] based off from a player power poll was a mistake

[...] Nomad is the only one who didn't fit

[...] Zemouregal being the one to betray the team at the end.
Support, support, support!

When the poll was up, the only think I could think was: "Nomad is Zamorakian? Well that came from nowhere!"

I suppose it could be explained as Zamorak giving some powerful guy a chance to 'join his inner circle', similar to what he tried with the World Guardian... but still, it seems like a strange choice.

As for Zemouregal betraying Zammy, I'm not sure what to think of that. On one hand, Zem does appear to be the most questioning Zamorakian, especially with his dialogue in MPD and earlier in DAT. And, according to his notes in Dimension of Disaster, seems to have entirely moved past following Zamorak (although that only seems to be the case with his success).

On the other hand Zemmy also seems to attempt loyalty, actually lumbering his way to Daemonheim to join up with Zam. Zemmy (supposedly) did this even towards Zaros: (in reference to the lore "Roots in the Community" )Mod William said:
[...] This campaign is Zemouregal - in his way - trying to continue serving Zaros. Perhaps he even thinks of Zaros's absence as a test - that Zaros wants him to take the initiative and do what couldn't be done. [...]
...Ya'know, had anyone told me in 2012 that another Mahjarrat would become a major force to be reckoned with, I'd honestly expect it to be Zemouregal... Huh... imagine: an alternate universe where Zemouregal killed Guthix (and Sliske was just some sub-boss in the quest). Would there be "Zemouregalians"?... Would I be a Zemouregalian? O_o
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01-Mar-2016 06:28:52

Rondstat

Rondstat

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warning: grumpy groats post ahead!



So, among story-focused players, it seems like there's a consensus that Tales of the God Wars is, at least at times, frustrating for its nonsensical narrative choices and lack of consistent plot.

Full disclosure, I haven't played it, so I don't really have any authority to speak on it. I haven't logged into the game since October. Though I do still like popping onto the forums occasionally.

I'm a lorehound. I play exclusively for story content. And I became so - disheartened with the ongoing direction of 'main story' lore development, that I just lost my will to play. The Halloween event was the straw that broke the camel's back. Its transgressions were very minor compared to a lot of other content, but after seeing the blatant disregard for existing story come into play, yet again, I just felt exhausted with the whole thing. How can you get invested in a story when the storyteller keeps changing the plot and the details?

As far as I've seen, the choice to ignore continuity has been a deliberate one. Existing lore can be disregarded if it is inconvenient to a particular story being told. And, if the Runescape story were more episodic, I may even support this kind of decision. But it's not, and it seems the narrative disregard is finally catching up to them.

A lot of work does into character-building, plot driving. And it's often the early development, the introductions, where readers/players become the most invested, form opinions on characters, get a grasp on the story. When the foundational pillars of narrative are switched out midway through, readers are lost, and it can feel duplicitous. We buy into the author's world, and we place a huge amount of trust in him to see it through to the conclusion. When that trust is betrayed, it takes a lot of effort to win it back. It doesn't matter how many authors there are.

08-Mar-2016 17:33:58

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,711Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rondstat said:
warning: grumpy groats post ahead!



So, among story-focused players, it seems like there's a consensus that Tales of the God Wars is, at least at times, frustrating for its nonsensical narrative choices and lack of consistent plot.

...

I'm a lorehound. I play exclusively for story content. ... How can you get invested in a story when the storyteller keeps changing the plot and the details?

As far as I've seen, the choice to ignore continuity has been a deliberate one. Existing lore can be disregarded if it is inconvenient to a particular story being told. And, if the Runescape story were more episodic, I may even support this kind of decision. But it's not, and it seems the narrative disregard is finally catching up to them.

A lot of work does into character-building, plot driving. And it's often the early development, the introductions, where readers/players become the most invested, form opinions on characters, get a grasp on the story. When the foundational pillars of narrative are switched out midway through, readers are lost, and it can feel duplicitous. We buy into the author's world, and we place a huge amount of trust in him to see it through to the conclusion. When that trust is betrayed, it takes a lot of effort to win it back. It doesn't matter how many authors there are.
I understand. I have a dream of a kind of alternative canon developed by lorehounds - fan*ic but demanding mutual criticism and some moderate respect for consistency.

EDIT: I just thought of this: houndcanon, between canon and headcanon lol

12-Mar-2016 20:16:22 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2016 20:57:04 by AttilaSquare

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Rondstat I read something in another game forum once and it was like this.

When a game puts any effort into lore and story they are making an implicit contract with players that says get invested and enjoy it and care about it and we will continue to put effort into it and care about it. When they do retcons, for little reason other than they think their new story is better, they breach that contract.

Honestly I haven't seen them do anything that actually required them to retcon anything and they could have done pretty much everything and been consistent but they have chosen not to because they cba to keep track of lore and obviously don't care.
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Scottish

15-Mar-2016 15:24:22

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thought I'd add my review for Nomad's Elegy.

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Nomad’s Elegy has provided me with mixed feelings. Upon hearing its announcement at Runefest, I was firmly against this quest. It seemed incredibly unnecessary and really just some marketing material for the premier package more than anything else. “You like Nomad, he’s getting an update. You like these people, they’re involved. Please subscribe for next year!”

After a while, I warmed to the idea. Sure it still reeked of poor planning and a quest existing to earn favour rather than a story the team had needing to be told. But there was potential with the underworld setting and deceased characters returning and projects made for poor reasoning can turn out good. With some talented writing and a good development process, Elegy could have been a good update.

Most if not all of that goodwill to the quest went away with the announcement of the requirements. I have made my distaste for The Mighty Fall clear before, review here , so was really not a fan of seeing it linked back into the main storyline. There was always the small hope it would be reworked or retconned now which is more unlikely. Also it came across as a cheap trick. John A made Zanik popular with good writing and the development of her character. Other developers have failed to learn from this, instead throwing her into quests as a attempt to make people like the update. The requirements came off as a cheap way to generate hype. *Oh look, we have these people you like, you like this update”.

Therefore my feelings towards Elegy was low expectations on release. It could have been a great update but looked like it was going for cheap tugs on the character work of previous quests.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

02-Apr-2016 12:56:26 - Last edited on 02-Apr-2016 13:02:41 by Autumn Elite

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