Forums

‡ The best quest ever? Vote! ‡

Quick find code: 341-342-196-65106546

of 74
Rondstat

Rondstat

Posts: 2,770Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sorry. Just ranting and raving because two devs I respect didn't acknowledge something that (I feel) should have been obvious. I don't think the quest was divisive because of the wrong marketing. I think it's divisive because it's suffering an identity crisis.

Maybe I'll fume some more about this later. Maybe not.

In miniquest news, I finally did Tales of the God Wars. It's... weird. I mean, I certainly like the idea of it, and I enjoyed the mechanics - follow this compass, slash and bash, unlock a lorey cutscene. I'd love to see more done in this vein, perhaps for God Sagas.

But the story was just all over the place. I respect the desire to couch the new bosses in existing lore, try to make them relevant to other stories. But I think the way they did this was horribly sloppy, the dates and uneven time periods leave your head spinning, and it has a few of those big, brash retcons that just leave you confused before you realize they've changed the lore. I mean, does Ollie think we're stupid? That we don't pay attention? If you don't mention something, we won't notice it's there?

Seriously, dude. Lampshade that ****. 'We alone made this journey. Now I regret leaving the rest of our clan behind.' There's nothing inherently wrong with reframing lore. But you've got to be honest about it.

I think a better and more immediately relevant story could have been devised with a bit more thought. And maybe different sides. I mean, if you took the extremist Godless and the warloving, megabeast-maneuvering Airut as factions, you'd have a story that wrote itself; there's barely any need for contrived grudges/motivations.

12-May-2016 20:31:45

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 6,781Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have reread the Covenant of Perpetual Conflict, and wow, I must say you are very much correct. I must have more or less missed it when I did the quest (probably out of excitement that the group were finally involved again), but yes, it is explicitly stated that they are essentially the puppeteers behind almost all of our actions in the series that have anything to do with Misthalin or the Salve, and Raispher was particularly shifty about it.

It's a shame the group didn't return at the end of the quest; fortunately, their story is very much unfinished and they have suddenly become an extremely important plot point rather than some minor side-arc in the series. I imagine River of Blood is set to have an "epilogue" quest in which the group are dealt with, much like how The Light Within served as an epilogue to the elf series, whose finale was definitely Plague's End.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

14-May-2016 10:59:39

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 6,781Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ayokana said:
I don't know how anyone could pick just 1 favorite quest! I will vote for 2, because old-style quests and new-style quests are both very very different. My favorite older quest would have to be Desert Treasure. My favorite newer quest would probably have to be The Light Within. If I absolutely had to choose one, I would say Desert Treasure.

DT it is then! :P
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

15-May-2016 10:08:13

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Drakan said:
Some things, though, although I've said them all before: the third Bandosian wave is much easier in EoC and if people with noxious weapons are struggling that's because the weapons you use don't matter much, but the strategy does. It is stated very clearly why Jessika, Hazelmere, Astrid and Xenia are in Limbo, and Zanik's eyes are very much the correct colour. This colour was specifically mentioned on the thread that dealt with her update.


That isn't true - the section is simply easier in Legacy so poorly balanced. It doesn't fit with Hazelmere being in Limbo - why would the character that knew about their death and accepted it be in a area for accepting it a significant time later? Also I've rechecked and Zanik's eyes are incorrect. I'm sure it will take little effort to check and correct it so either way they should just get someone to check it.

Lord Drakan said:
Right - River of Blood anyone?


I doubt many people will vote it their favourite quest simply as if they do like the style, the earlier quests in the series are truer to that so likely people will vote for those.

Rondstat said:
It's very true that this quest was not where it should have been in terms of difficulty. Combat and puzzles were both tuned far easier than in tLoV, and it only exceeded its predecessor in terms of personal initiative required - while still paling when compared to Darkness or Legacy. I think this robs the quest of 'satisfaction' value on completion. It doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment.


I do feel this is very true.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 13:36:30

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Decided to post my River of Blood review here so it isn't lost. If anyone wants to see the full thread with my thoughts on April, its in Recent Game Updates.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The quest starts with Roald sending Aeonis*g off to control the situation at Paterdomus. The dialogue is amusing and a fair start to the quest. However Roald is reduced to a bookmark in the story. You check in with him at the start and end. He does very little in the quest and could have been omitted entirely by starting at Paterdomus and ending on the truce. Roald is a needless addition, simply there as he has been previously and it would be odd to see the king doing nothing. But it remains odd as the king does basically nothing during an invasion crisis. His role should have been buffed or changed to add something of value to the quest.

At Paterdomus, three vampyres attack. The Varrock Guard offer no help, I like to think as an homage to how useless the Myreque were throughout the series. Aeonis** then sets three tasks - securing the salve more, preparing the troops and clearing the temple of Zamorakians.

Firstly the Zamorakians were handled poorly. We were forced to kill then, despite a chat option saying we would look for a peaceful option but we don’t even try. This could have been a good opportunity for some commentary, either about how factions don’t neatly fit into agreeing with plans or how we have become more callous about killing during the war or something. But no, it is just a “kill X” task. The temple itself also plays no further role in the quest. Its securing mean nothing and had no effect. It is reminiscent of our promotion in the Lord of Vampyrium. It is something that should have been done in the series but was left too long and felt out of place now it is being included.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:36:16

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
On the top floor is the Zamorakian leaders of the splinter group. Clearly this is the real reason we were asked to clear the temple. This sub plot needed resolution but there was no other place so it was stuck inside a menial task. This feels a very forced resolution - Is there any reason the Zamorakians are still meeting at the temple? A book drops explaining their purpose - that could have been handled better, even fairly easily in the existing plot. If the group wanted the god wars back, why did*’t they confront us later on during the plot as we are strengthening the salve instead of us being forced to clear the temple needlessly? Additionally the combat seems rather sudden. We killed some low level vampyres and now are dealing with 50k health sub bosses. I’m not really criticising this, it is a grandmaster and it wasn't a massive deal to return if beaten, but it did seem rather sudden. The group teleport off and Aeonis*g was implied to be a member but we just move on. Was the group left alive for a reason hinting at a return later on? Are we supposed to dislike Aeonis** because he is annoying or because he was part of the group? In all, this section was poorly handled. It feels out of place and doesn’t explain as much as it should. Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:38:20

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Next we equip the guards with steel and blisterwood weapons. I decided to make the equipment myself instead of buying it or getting it from my bank. Depending on what you do, the length of this section can vary. This section is fine but unimportant. It was easy to get the blisterwood and ultimately the guards don’t do anything in the quest. It would have been better if this section added to the rest of the quest, either making us have to fight to get the blisterwood to make a sense to building opposition or have the guards fight losing to the vampyres or wryd to show how overwhelming the chances are against us. I have criticised the Myreque for just throwing minor characters to the death to slightly push the plot forward but at least here, on the verge of war, a high death toll of minor characters make sense. So an OK section, could have been better.

Finally we go to chat to Drezel and Ivan. After giving a nice shout out about how nice it would be to have Saradomin return, there is a short puzzle to receive a book on the Salve. After discovering it was a blood ritual that created the barrier and use a Guthix Balance potion to unlock more chapters detailing Ivandis’s struggle with vampyrism, we create a Super Guthix Balance potion to strengthen the Salve. This is probably the best part of the quest. It expands on the lore and character of the seven priestly warriors, explains the Salve barrier, takes us back to previous areas and items whilst feeling earned that we would go and use the items. It adds details, avoids feeling forced and reduces the cliche “good and bad” that stains the series by making Ivandis a complex figure. Ivan’s “why can*t he be both?” is the perfect mix of subtle writing but evident enough to resonate with all players.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:38:51

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You are informed Vanescula has arrived and go to head her off. The choices were nice - I opted to assassinated and threaten her. The army cutscene is shown and then some vampyres turn feral who you quickly dispatch. Then the wyrd appears. Its an OK fight but it really doesn’t explain its sonic mechanic well. Is this like Brink of Extinction where we are meant to stun it? Are we supposed to use earmuffs? Its not very well explained so I just decided to tank through it. Then it kills Drezel and Efaritay appears to ward off the wyrd.

There are several issues here. Lets begin with the armies. The quest was sold as the struggle between two forces. A finale to the series which has been about the overwhelming odds and opposition to freeing the humans of Mortytania and the high costs this has. To quote Captain America “The price of freedom is high, it always has been and its a price I’m willing to pay”. That should have been the tone and feel of the finale. The concept art, the trailer and the series all imply conflict and opposition. The armies are only seen here and not used. Everything has been building to this, we were told this was coming and it just did*’t come. Quests don’t need lots of combat or conflict or struggle to be great but this quest did as thats what is supposed to be about and it did*’t happen. Its a shame as Lord of Vampyrium had a fantastic tone wheres this is all over the place.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:39:07

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Drezel’s death has little to no impact, only being brought up once more after this. Ivan has been built up throughout the series as special, there has always been hints that he will do something important and that he is the Legacy of Seergaze. So all this build up and Ivan’s role is a substitute Drezel. A substitute only needed as Drezel is written out at the last minute, in an accident with the wyrd. For a death to be effective, it must be true for the character and plot. Drezel’s death sort of makes sense that he would protect Ivan but its written so poorly and it just feels like Drezel is thrown under the wyrd in a poor fashion to make Ivan had a use. For a series with a high death count and a clash of armies, the fact that only death the quest has is handled poorly is very underwhelming.

Whilst we are on the topic. Veliaf has been hanging near Canafis during all of this. We can chat with him throughout the quest but he does nothing. This seems entirely strange. Yes he is disillusioned but is he just going to let an army go through where Ivan is with no objection and just end his story in a D&D? It would seem much more effective to have Veliaf sacrifice himself for Ivan to fulfil his arc & have much more emotional impact. Or have Ivan die and have a commentary on how war was wasteful and kills unnecessarily. It just seemed like Drezel’s death was sacrificing him for little gain whereas others would have worked better.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:40:22

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,464Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Then there is Efaritay. Sigh. It seemed likely she would return after the last quest and unfortunately she did. Efaritay is a poor character. She comes across as a convinent non character Deus Ex Machina. She uses her Icyene powers to scare off the wyrd, yes we see a return of magic unexplained Icyene powers to aid us whenever there is a problem, then she uses mother powers to aid us in returning Safalaan to normal. Efaritay is just very convenient - returning at a convenient time with convenient powers with seemingly little impact from thousands of years of imprisonment to convenient ending that joins for a happy ending.

Anyway Efaritay whines at you and flies away. So you track her down and duh, duh, duh, Safalaan is alive and the wyrd. This really undermines Lord of Vampyrium which pulled off Safalaan** death well. Its cheap and makes Safalaan more of a Deus Ex Machina that we was before. All Safalaan adds to the series in occasionally doing his Icyene powers when the writers are in a fix and now returns. Its also interesting that they use death is important in some cases and bring everyone back in others. Thats conflicting and doesn’t work. So we upgrade the sunspear to actually be a spear. In one way it is a nice addition and reward although the fact it acts as a range and magic weapon seems more of a choice for the fight rather than being needed.
Wake me up when Osborne resigns | Will not be renewing membership until Jagex deals with its toxic developer culture & has a new, better lead designer | *Soon TM” is not a fun joke, it is an admission the company is an embarrassment

17-May-2016 14:40:50

Quick find code: 341-342-196-65106546Back to Top