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Sacrilegious
Dec Member 2006

Sacrilegious

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I originally wrote this for Tumblr for mostly my own record, but there doesn't seem to be a discussion here and an anon questioned my interpretation so I thought I start one as I'm now less certain of what I think. :) Little disclaimer, my knowledge of desert lore isn't perfect so do forgive me if something is outright wrong.

My thoughts:

#1 Oreb has a plan. It’s about souls and we don’t know much about it, although he is looking to create a ‘glorious new future’ (#5). He has an obsession with the Underworld, makes sense as it’s where he “lives” I guess. Not sure what the change in the Underworld is to do with the recently deceased, why is it that what their souls are leaving behind is different?

#2 Details how Oreb survived Nomad killing him through some time-y wimey necromancy (maybe reincarnation?) stuff.

#3 He’s not working with Amascut (yet? Later (#4) there’s mention of ‘others’ that like souls and have dodgy morals) although here he seems more interested in Icthlarin, I’d be sad if he ended up being convinced to do bad or corrupted by Oreb. I do see that as unlikely, although it’s interesting he could potentially be stronger than Saradomin. It’s funny that now Saradomin is running around with the Wand of Resurrection and being as self righteous as ever, it seems like he could be corrupted to take more power. However, I’d doubt they’d cross the quest series like that, especially with DoC II coming soon ™.

He also mentions sharing an ancient guilt, whatever could that be? I hope this means that we learn more about Teragard soon.

#4 Soul manipulation machines, the soul altar? What exactly was Amascut up to at the end of ‘Phite Club? I assume it’s related to Oreb’s interests.

Pollnivneach Slayer Dungeon? Or was this confirmed as something else? I don’t actually know.
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07-Jul-2017 23:42:03

Sacrilegious
Dec Member 2006

Sacrilegious

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#5 It would seem that genocide is what Oreb is after, he’s looking to brute force his way to some more power. Similar to Tumeken’s magical blast that blew himself up maybe? He also knows who we are, although we have been interacting with everything from Menaphos to himself and the Sophanem Slayer Dungeon, not sure how he had time to write this while being repeatedly killed though.
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07-Jul-2017 23:42:15

Sacrilegious
Dec Member 2006

Sacrilegious

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The question I was asked and what I thought. Anyone got anything to add?

Original message details are unavailable.
Q: on magister lore book #2, I took the person being talked about to be the world guardian rather than nomad? did think nomad at first but it seems to make more sense as the WG


Interesting, this is exactly what I originally thought too. However I changed my mind once I finished reading all the journals as I assumed the journals are in chronological order thus the WG doesn’t arrive in Menaphos until #5. Also I felt it made less sense to talk about the WG before like that especially when we’re explicitly mentioned by name in #5. Another issue was that the ‘their image has been warped by the passage of years’, I don’t think Oreb had knowledge of the WG years ago, certainly not long enough ago that our image has been ‘warped’.

Then again that book is a little weird and out of time, so it’s very possible my interpretation is wrong! And I’m now no longer sure who its about, I’ve not actually read anyone else’s thoughts on the journals so I’ll have to ask about.

If I don’t have the assumption that the journals are in chronological order. Or maybe, only assume that in #2 Oreb didn’t know the WG’s name but by #5 he did. Particularly as the ‘perhaps for their first time’, part really doesn’t fit with Nomad at all, as Nomad killing Oreb that certainly wasn’t the first meeting they had. I did wonder if it was to do with resurrection, although that would imply he’d visited the underworld which he hasn’t or at least not #1.

It’s always a little weird when game mechanics are written into lore, however that does better explain the weird time stuff and being killed multiple times.

Currently I can see good arguments that support both view points. Although as both (to me at least) have some inconsistencies I’m now wondering if the journal could be referring to someone else entirely?
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07-Jul-2017 23:42:21 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2017 23:44:25 by Sacrilegious

Haukur
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Haukur

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From what I have gathered from reading over the transcripts of his journals is this. He stumbled upon Tumeken's soul in the underworld. He is also seeking out godhood himself . But not from the use of any elder artifact, but through soul manipulation. Don't ever think the reason I am peaceful is because I do not know how to be violent.
Ekki hugsa alltaf að ég sé friðsælt vegna þess að ég veit ekki hvernig á að vera ofbeldi.

14-Jul-2017 21:16:24

Devil Vein
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Devil Vein

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Haukur said:
From what I have gathered from reading over the transcripts of his journals is this. He stumbled upon Tumeken's soul in the underworld. He is also seeking out godhood himself . But not from the use of any elder artifact, but through soul manipulation.


How can Tumeken have a soul? I get the sense that all the journals and the magisters battle occurs in 5th age and that theres more to the info that nomad knows which leads to his creation of Gilenior in Nomads Elegy in the 6th age. A god truely deserving of its title...
I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim;
Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.

15-Jul-2017 02:47:43

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Devil Vein said:
Haukur said:
From what I have gathered from reading over the transcripts of his journals is this. He stumbled upon Tumeken's soul in the underworld. He is also seeking out godhood himself . But not from the use of any elder artifact, but through soul manipulation.


How can Tumeken have a soul? I get the sense that all the journals and the magisters battle occurs in 5th age and that theres more to the info that nomad knows which leads to his creation of Gilenior in Nomads Elegy in the 6th age. A god truely deserving of its title...


But there's more. I have felt it. There resides here a soul of tremendous power, a soul clearly divine in nature, yet it is not whole. It is split across several pieces, many of which have changed to become, of themselves, singular entities.

The souls making up Gielinor wouldn't have been "clearly Divine in nature", nor would they be part of a singular being pre-construction. Oreb refers to one soul that had been split into several parts, which is consistent with what we know about Tumeken. Restoring his soul has been a prominent plot point of the Desert series for a while now. Most notably, the four aspects make up his bau, who match the "singular entities" Oreb mentions in his journals.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to believe a god that can be defeated by Icthlarin and Death, who are fairly weak in the grand scheme of things, is a "truer" god than the continent-levelling gods at the top of the tier scale.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

15-Jul-2017 20:46:38 - Last edited on 15-Jul-2017 20:47:10 by AesirWarrior

Devil Vein
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Devil Vein

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AesirWarrior said:
Devil Vein said:
Haukur said:
From what I have gathered from reading over the transcripts of his journals is this. He stumbled upon Tumeken's soul in the underworld. He is also seeking out godhood himself . But not from the use of any elder artifact, but through soul manipulation.


How can Tumeken have a soul? I get the sense that all the journals and the magisters battle occurs in 5th age and that theres more to the info that nomad knows which leads to his creation of Gilenior in Nomads Elegy in the 6th age. A god truely deserving of its title...


But there's more. I have felt it. There resides here a soul of tremendous power, a soul clearly divine in nature, yet it is not whole. It is split across several pieces, many of which have changed to become, of themselves, singular entities.

The souls making up Gielinor wouldn't have been "clearly Divine in nature", nor would they be part of a singular being pre-construction. Oreb refers to one soul that had been split into several parts, which is consistent with what we know about Tumeken. Restoring his soul has been a prominent plot point of the Desert series for a while now. Most notably, the four aspects make up his bau, who match the "singular entities" Oreb mentions in his journals.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to believe a god that can be defeated by Icthlarin and Death, who are fairly weak in the grand scheme of things, is a "truer" god than the continent-levelling gods at the top of the tier scale.


I believe Oreb is referencing the anima mundi here. How it splinters into several souls which one day rejoin the source (as telos puts it.) We ve all seen how powerful the anima mundi can be and i really believe thats what hes talking about here. As for Icthlarin or death killing Gielinor Jagex said god tiers arent about raw power but about knowledge.
I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim;
Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.

15-Jul-2017 22:47:33

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Devil Vein said:

I believe Oreb is referencing the anima mundi here. How it splinters into several souls which one day rejoin the source (as telos puts it.) We ve all seen how powerful the anima mundi can be and i really believe thats what hes talking about here. As for Icthlarin or death killing Gielinor Jagex said god tiers arent about raw power but about knowledge.


No, the tiers have always been about power. Zamorak lost power during the Battle of Lumbridge so he dropped a tier, he gained power in Dat so he gained a tier. Saradomin rose to T3 because of his victory in BoL. Bandos descended to T4 because Zanik destroyed the amulet. The original "hiearchy" page on the RS homepage clearly use the tiers of godhood as a measurement of power.


Jagex have said that they're not necessarily a guide to who beats who, and a more cunning or knowledgable god can beat a more powerful one, but on their own the tiers have always exclusively been about power.


Whether you look at knowledge, power, or fashion style, Icthlarin and Death aren't close to kill anything that's supposed to dwarf the other gods in power. The only possibility is that Gielinor wasn't finished if that was the case.

And how exactly is the Anima Mundi "divine"? Divine energy is a fairly well-defined thing, seperate from just standard Anima.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

16-Jul-2017 02:14:10 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2017 02:17:28 by AesirWarrior

Sodden Hound
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Sodden Hound

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Gods DO have "souls", but their souls are divine - sorta diffused throughout their entire form and being, and made of divine energy (obviously) not anima. As opposed to a normal living being's soul, made of anima and supposedly at the "core" of their being (as suggested by Arrav's heart, light/shadow creatures, and Avernic demons' hearts of flame or somethin').
So uh, Tumeken definitely has a soul. He just doesn't have an afterlife, same as other gods.
Oreb's def talking about ol' Tumeken XD
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16-Jul-2017 06:02:48 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2017 06:08:22 by Sodden Hound

Devil Vein
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Devil Vein

Posts: 385Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
AesirWarrior said:
Devil Vein said:

I believe Oreb is referencing the anima mundi here. How it splinters into several souls which one day rejoin the source (as telos puts it.) We ve all seen how powerful the anima mundi can be and i really believe thats what hes talking about here. As for Icthlarin or death killing Gielinor Jagex said god tiers arent about raw power but about knowledge.


No, the tiers have always been about power. Zamorak lost power during the Battle of Lumbridge so he dropped a tier, he gained power in Dat so he gained a tier. Saradomin rose to T3 because of his victory in BoL. Bandos descended to T4 because Zanik destroyed the amulet. The original "hiearchy" page on the RS homepage clearly use the tiers of godhood as a measurement of power.


Jagex have said that they're not necessarily a guide to who beats who, and a more cunning or knowledgable god can beat a more powerful one, but on their own the tiers have always exclusively been about power.


Whether you look at knowledge, power, or fashion style, Icthlarin and Death aren't close to kill anything that's supposed to dwarf the other gods in power. The only possibility is that Gielinor wasn't finished if that was the case.

And how exactly is the Anima Mundi "divine"? Divine energy is a fairly well-defined thing, seperate from just standard Anima.


It might be the most divine thing in the entire mythology. Anima Mundi aka the world soul. It connects all living creatures and without it even Elder Gods die. I dont see how a complete Tumeken is more worthy of the moniker of a God than the other young gods. As we know he was tier 5. The heart of the Anima Mundi is in the desert. Oreb is in the desert. He's talking about harnessing the souls in the anima aka the source. He never does succeed but Nomad does but as you mentioned Geilinor was incomplete.
I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim;
Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.

16-Jul-2017 08:11:40

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