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Nomad Hardmode - MQC or not?

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Wahisietel

Wahisietel

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If you're giving "it doesn't have any relevance to lore" as a reason it shouldn't be on the master quest cape, then you clearly have no ****ing idea what the master quest cape actually is, and your opinion is irrelevant. IT ISN'T A LORE CAPE AND IT NEVER HAS BEEN. It's a QUEST cape, and represents ALL aspects of quests, including boss fights.

The cape ALREADY has a ton of requirements that have absolutely nothing to do with lore, many of them PVM related (such as the FIght Kiln, the Phoenix rematch, ect). We as a community did set the requirements for the cape, and these are the ones we chose. If you didn't contribute to that discussion, that's your problem. Either way, Nomad hard mode fits the criteria in the same way the Dawn rematch post-Death of Chivalry does.

The Nomad Hard Mode requirement is literally EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS DAWN: A repeatable rematch with a boss from the quest, and you get a cosmetic override after beating the rematch the first time. The Fight Kiln is the same thing, it's a harder version of a fight from the quest that you earn a cosmetic override from completing. If these two are on, then Nomad needs to be to.

If you have an issue with the criteria itself, that's fair enough, but that's a separate issue. But this isn't a discussion about what the master quest cape should be, it's a discussion about whether or not Nomad hard mode fits the criteria. As is the cape is currently, it does.

But I doubt any of you care about that, since most of you clearly don't even have the cape. The cape already pretty much requires max combat stats due to Kiln and Ripper demons, anyone who actually HAS the cape will have no issues with Nomad, so I'm not really sure what you're whining about.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 02:20:20 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 02:29:49 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't get why people argue that a harder version of the most iconic quest boss of all time shouldn't be on the cape.

Quests are not just story, they are also gameplay, and the original Nomad fight is one of the most iconic pieces of quest gameplay in the game. For many of us, pre-EOC Nomad's Requiem was our final challenge before we obtained the original quest cape.

After EOC made him a joke, we've not really had anything close to the difficulty Nomad was back then, and when things DID approach that difficulty, they got nerfed (TokHaar-Hok, Grimsson/Hreidmar).

We're obviously never going to get a tough boss required for the quest cape again, but now we have an opportunity to give the master cape something to rival the original, pre-eoc Nomad in terms of difficulty. As questers, we should embrace this. The master cape should be more than a grinding and RNG cape, there should be some actual challenge involved, just like the original quest cape.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 14:07:43 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 14:09:26 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Chaos Lupus said:
Wahisietel said:
I don't get why people argue that a harder version of the most iconic quest boss of all time shouldn't be on the cape.

Quests are not just story, they are also gameplay, and the original Nomad fight is one of the most iconic pieces of quest gameplay in the game. For many of us, pre-EOC Nomad's Requiem was our final challenge before we obtained the original quest cape.

After EOC made him a joke, we've not really had anything close to the difficulty Nomad was back then, and when things DID approach that difficulty, they got nerfed (TokHaar-Hok, Grimsson/Hreidmar).

We're obviously never going to get a tough boss required for the quest cape again, but now we have an opportunity to give the master cape something to rival the original, pre-eoc Nomad in terms of difficulty. As questers, we should embrace this. The master cape should be more than a grinding and RNG cape, there should be some actual challenge involved, just like the original quest cape.


The quest itself is already required, obviously. No point in making people go back and go through an extra boss battle just for the hell of it. Nomad has already been canonically defeated, unless defeating him again gives us access to more content or lore, it's entirely unnecessary.


It gives access to a new cape :). Assuming it's a 100% drop for the first kill, it's pretty much the same as killing Dawn again for the Dulcin armour override.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 14:47:32

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lynxlynx said:

okay, i'm not maxed or anything like that, i don't have any good gear, i'm not good at bossing, but come on! Wouldn't you call Nomad from Nomad's Elegy a hard boss?

Sorry Wahi, usually I agree with you, but not this time :(


If I was able to beat him with barely any effort when I was just using tetsu and drygores and a yak full of Rocktails, then no, he wasn't a hard boss. I didn't even avoid any of his specials.

But it's been a long time since the original pre-EOC Nomad fight, and those of us who did it are naturally stronger than we used to be. And I think having a post-quest actual challenge for the master quest cape would be acceptable.

Keep in mind the other master quest cape requirements already give you close to max combat stats and a free set of T85 gear, so anyone actually eligible should be well equipped to deal with him.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 14:57:50 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 15:02:02 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll do the legwork and quote the criteria.

Original message details are unavailable.

We will ask you to complete all quests, miniquests, unabridged sagas and story-oriented content. Story-oriented content is defined as:
- Content that rewards the player with lore (memorium crystals in Elf City)
- Content that asks the player to participate in story-rich content (Court Cases)
- Content that asks the player to play expanded versions of content that featured in a quest (Temple Trekking)
- We will not include content that has a light narrative theme, rather than deep story or connections to a quest. For example, Cabbage Facepunch Bonanza and Livid Farm have some backstory, but are not integral to RuneScape’s storyline.
We will ask you to gain story-oriented unique items. These are defined as:
- Titles, as long as they show off a story accomplishment (Vyrelord/Annihilator).
- Items, cosmetic or otherwise, significant to the storyline (gilded cabbage, Crest of Seren).
- Journals and other books


Original message details are unavailable.

- Minigames and D&D's will be included as long as they:
-> Are directly introduced and/or are mentioned in the Quest and provide one-off or permanent rewards (Court Cases, Temple Trekking, Fight Kiln (enhanced fire cape). Dom Tower/Livid Farm do not fit under these).
- Titles, as long as they show off a direct accomplishment post-quest or are awarded with a one-off XP lamp/drop. I.e. Vyrelord/Annihilator. Rush of Blood titles are not directly tied to the quest, neither is Archamge (few examples).


Nomad fits into both "Content that asks the player to play expanded versions of content that featured in a quest" and the Soul cape under "Items, cosmetic or otherwise, significant to the storyline".

As it stands right now, 4k Chompies is the only thing that meets the criteria that isn't currently included. Arguably The Nexus too, but that was mainly a case of it being missed when we were compiling the requirements, I'd like to see it added at some point.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 19:09:03

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You had plenty of time to voice your opinions about what the master quest cape should be when we set the initial requirements, but that time has passed.

Personally, I don't really see any issue with the requirements as they stand. The only requirements on the cape that I would have personally left off are the Broken Home chest and Wizard Sedridor's chest, every other requirement is fine.

The only requirement added since the initial release that I disagree with is the Oyster D&D, since doing it provides no permanent unlock.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 20:43:52 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 20:44:05 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't see how it isn't a cape for the lore community. It's got every bit of post-quest content, every lorebook, every miniquest, even the port storylines. Even stuff like Kiln is a introduced and played in a quest before it's played as a minigame. Is your argument that some lore and quest-related stuff is too difficult?

Like I said, the only real issues I have with it are the Broken Home chests (since you need 90 in every skill) and Wizard Sedridor's chest (since you need 99 Runecrafting).
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 21:34:32 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 21:35:31 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
We're way off topic at this point, since this was supposed to be a discussion about whether or not Nomad fits on the Master Quest Cape as it stands right now (he does), and we're now discussing what the Master Quest Cape should be.

To me, it seems that your problem is that the Master Quest Cape represents ALL aspects of quests, and not just the ones you are personally interested in. But I'm curious, which specific requirements on the cape do you disagree with, and what is your reasoning for them?
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Sep-2016 15:49:54

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The thing is, the Fight Kiln (and Hard Mode Nomad) is very fitting in what the master quest cape should be. We play a portion of the Fight Kiln minigame in the Elder Kiln quest, so why wouldn't the expanded version of that portion of the quest be required for the master quest cape? The same goes for Temple Trekking/Burgh de Rott Ramble, which is introduced and played in Darkness of Hallowvale and Legacy of Seergaze.

I'd agree with you that having to do it three times for the Enhanced fire cape is a bit excessive, but that's the fault of whoever designed the enhanced fire cape :P.

Honestly, I would argue that stuff like the Fight Kiln is considerably more fitting for the Master QUEST cape than rare drops from random slayer monsters like Ripper Demons.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Sep-2016 19:24:55 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 19:28:57 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Skills that are required for and used in quests obviously aren't the same thing as minigames, boss fights and other pieces of content that the quest introduces and unlocks, so enough with the strawman arguments. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Sep-2016 20:30:52 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 20:32:04 by Wahisietel

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