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Genocide by wing?

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Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said:
And? It's not justified to kill those who are trying to kill you? "Turn the other cheek" or "be killed" is the most stupid phrase ever. What always works in survival is an eye for an eye and kill or be killed. Zamorak also directly tried to genocide the Zarosians and for their beliefs, not for security/order. And the other gods were also involved in locking up Nex.

Your saying it's better to let them kill you rather than kill them before you are killed.

If you have a bully you have to use force sometimes so they can't have the will to hurt you anymore otherwise they will never listen, its the same situation.


While I agree that standing up for yourself and the occasional violence is necessary for progression and peace, I disagree with almost everything else. This isn't a mere bully in a school yard, this is an entire race we are talking about here.

Killing armed combatants in the heat of battle and self defence is different than killing non-combatants in their homes. Because what you may have failed to realise is that not all of the native race would have been warriors. Many would have been children as well, along with the old, the sickly and any peaceful inhabitants that may have protested but were ignored because they had no military power.

All wiped out. An entire culture and people erased from the face of their home planet probably because their government picked the wrong blue giant to fight with.

There is nothing reasonable or justifiable about complete genocide of a sentient race. If you over power someone that greatly that you can take out the entire race, you can afford some mercy.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 03:31:11

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said:
Its possible Saradomin could have assimilated them, not killed all of them or his reasoning could be that from his experience they might have decided to retaliate against the order in the long-term to destroy it. I would have done taken the "mercy" path(To prove you wrong about the Saradomin faction) but perhaps from his experience it was not viable for order in long-term but we can show him if he can be convinced it works. The Zarosian Empire also did similar things anyway?

Also are you sure it could not have been collateral damage?


Ah, my apologies. I didn't mean that as a slight against the Saradomin faction as whole but rather against Saradomin's choice in this particular scenario. I do however take issue with anyone that would support his choice for no other reason than that he's there chosen god. Blind faith is not true loyalty and any blind followers are actually a detriment to their faction.

That aside, an entire race is a LOT of collateral damage unless they had the same kind of numbers the Mahjarrat currently do.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:21:12

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said:
For collateral damage we have an example of it being a possibility here, in the god wars as Juna mentioned it was not safe even for civilians or ordinary life in general. Many races went extinct as a result of them. Every day of life was a struggle to survive during the god wars even for the strongest according to what she mentions. Yes "races" can go extinct as a result of intense war in the runescape universe somehow. Especially when there are soldiers inside civilian areas and people using magic to blast or set fire to them in the process of trying to kill the enemy.


Perhaps. However Juna was referring to the God Wars which had many factions, more than the current age, and had Bandos as a participant who really didn't care for collateral damage. Not to mention the length of time the Wars actually dragged on for.

As far as we know, there was only Saradomin at the time and even if it was a case of God vs God, I doubt it would even come close to the level of destruction that the God Wars was implied to have done.

Maybe if we knew the exact numbers and the like then maybe it could be rationally excused. But with what we were given, Saradomin feels massively in the wrong here, well intended or not.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:36:18

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Like I said, without knowing the exact details we will never be able to judge if it the right choice to make. I stand by my opinion that I think it was wrong and won't begrudge you for your own opinion.

But after taking up a page of our lovely Solanumtinkr's thread, I believe we should cut our discussion there. XD I'd be happy to talk about this further in-game when I fix my computer should you feel inclined to.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:51:21

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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A question comes to mind concerning the Icyene Nobles. Did they have command over their own private forces? Kind of akin to the Demonic legions that Zaros secured from Hostilius. I can see Saradomin's fear being somewhat reasonable if Garlandia commanded a large fighting force and feared the other Nobles would withdraw their support if given the oppurtunity.

That being said, it always gave me the impression it was just Garlandia and I find it impossible to justify Saradomin's responce if it was.

EDIT: After reading the new Saradomin dialouge apparently she called for all the Icyene to lay down their weapons and find a peaceful solution instead. That makes a little bit more sense if it's true but I still think the genocide was still inexcusable.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 20:24:44 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 20:38:58 by Lord Remus

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said:
Saradomin's philosophy is the opposite of implementing "Survival of the Fittest", its about protecting all of the weak and where everybody has the right to survive.


All of the weak? When he ran away from Tuska, he left the remaining Naragi to their fate and didn't bother take take them with him. This is a race he practically crippled when they refused to worship him and nothing more. He has expressed regret over his actions but that does not change the fact his treatment of the Naragi was completely inexcusable and when it was time to take responsiblity he left them on a dying world with two other battling Gods.

Also, just because someone claims they feel regret does not mean it is genuine regret. A psyhopath with good social and communication skills is more dangerous the average unrepentant madman as it's much harder to know what their real intention is. This may not apply to Saradomin but it is something you should keep in mind.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

25-Dec-2016 07:34:26

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Solanumtinkr said:
Good thing Gielinor has a World Guardian blazing new trails, wouldn't you say?


Depends on the kind of World Guardian lol. Not all of us play good characters it would seem.
I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

26-Dec-2016 12:51:43

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