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New Alternate Gielinor Lore

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Hguoh

Hguoh

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With this year's Halloween event taking place in the Dimension of DIsaster, let's take some time to record the new lore about their world that this event provides.

Black Knights control Falador
Trolls control Burthorpe and Taverly
Guthix was able to drain the gods of their divine energies before banishing them (kinda makes you wonder why he didn't do that in our reality).

Oh yeah, and, if the construct is anything to go by, Bandos was apparently grey beneath all that armor.

24-Oct-2016 15:48:51

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Deltaslug said:
I thought Seren never made it to Gilienor in that time line?

If so, Guthix never had the calming influence of Seren to temper him throughout the First Age.
So when he woke up at the end of the God Wars, you had a pissed off Guthix infused with divine rage, instead of a far more moderate Guthix who just wanted the offenders gone.

No World Guardian = No one to go back in time and get noticed by Seren's scout = no Seren on the world = no reason for the World guardian to go back in time to get advice from Guthix on how to put Seren back together = no one to go back and tell Guthix he dies in the future = no bootstrap paradox


Seren made it to Gielinor, she just didn't stick around. She still came to Gielinor originally, but didn't stick around for two reasons.

First, the player character never went back in time to give her hope that something on Gielinor could help her cure the elves.

Second without the player character's influence, the boy from Meeting History went on to a become an accomplished and fairly evil sorcerer, and eventually Guthix put him down. This display of violence horrified Seren and convinced her that Guthix would not be able to help her. This resulted in her pacing up and leaving Gielinor with her elves.

Now considering there was at least one point in the character's history when we had not influenced Jack in the past (prior to Meeting History (otherwise we'd not have been able to change past events like we do during that quest)), our Guthix is likely a bit more kind than alternate Gielinor's Guthix since well, none of the stuff in their world's past happened in ours.

24-Oct-2016 21:29:26 - Last edited on 24-Oct-2016 21:37:27 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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N7spongy said:
Lord Valzin said:
Hguoh said:


Seren made it to Gielinor, she just didn't stick around. She still came to Gielinor originally, but didn't stick around for two reasons.

First, the player character never went back in time to give her hope that something on Gielinor could help her cure the elves.

Second without the player character's influence, the boy from Meeting History went on to a become an accomplished and fairly evil sorcerer, and eventually Guthix put him down. This display of violence horrified Seren and convinced her that Guthix would not be able to help her. This resulted in her pacing up and leaving Gielinor with her elves.

Now considering there was at least one point in the character's history when we had not influenced Jack in the past (prior to Meeting History (otherwise we'd not have been able to change past events like we do during that quest)), our Guthix is likely a bit more kind than alternate Gielinor's Guthix since well, none of the stuff in their world's past happened in ours.


Where is this stuff about alternate Guthix, Seren and Jack from?
A QA released with DoD, check the unofficial wiki page for the quest the link should be near the trivia section


If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was actually a response to my own question. :)

I asked if the Dark Imperator was the Zamorakians' attempt to write Zaros out of history or if it was really Loarnab. Their explanation was that Zaros was never subconsciously attracted to Seren's presence on the plane and so never came to Gielinor, and then provided that as the reason why Seren wasn't on the plane (though that likely mean Ardougne is under sea slug, given Witchaven's proximity, or Hazeel's control rather than part of it being sacrificed for the Dark Lord).

25-Oct-2016 03:32:50 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2016 03:33:27 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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CD_Paladin_C said:
Hguoh said:

Oh yeah, and, if the construct is anything to go by, Bandos was apparently grey beneath all that armor.


This was already common knowledge


Also today I came the 2nd closest I've ever been on my quest to #StopSaradomin


Hmm, never saw that concept before. Plus, I thought the gray we saw on his model was basically chainmail.

25-Oct-2016 03:41:26

Hguoh

Hguoh

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You'd have a reasonably good point if it weren't for the fact that we've helped out all over Gielinor. For example, let's take a look at Kandarin as per your example.

As we already know, Seren never stayed on Gielinor in their timeline (which, come to think of it, means Seren would have never made her barrier around the area that Guthix based his Edicts on, explaining why their Guthix didn't make a barrier).

This would mean that the entirety of the Isafdar area wouldn't have been colonized by the elves. Assuming the area remained uncolonized, Tyras would have never been able to travel westward, as the elves would have never made the pass. So far, so good.

And as for Hazeel, he gets revived, deposes both kings, and could rule not badly. But that's only half of what Kandarin is facing. Keep in mind that Witchaven lies directly to its east. Without the player's influence and Falador crippled and eventually conquered by the Kinshra and their schemes, the sea slugs would have been free to start mind controlling the world's inhabitants, with Ardougne being the first in the firing line. Sure, Zemo might think his brother is king of Ardougne, but the Sea Slug Queen most likely has Hazeel and all of Ardougne's population under her thrall by now.

And honestly, things don't look much better for the rest of that half of the continent. Frems get overrun by Dagganoth, Glouck's schemes within gnome territories go unnoticed and unopposed, and neither the zogres nor the ogress' spa issues are ever adressed.

This leaves Catherby and Seer's Village as the last bastions of 'good' beset on all sides by their enemies.

I do have a theory that has a more interesting implications, and involves Tyra's crossing into Isafdar, but I'll post that once I get access to a computer rather than a phone.

25-Oct-2016 21:34:33

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Ok, fun time.

In order to get events fairly close to what they are in were in ours, Isafdar first needs to be colonized way back when. Given the area, the first beings to be able to do this would have been some of the original humans via the northern pass through the mountains. The only other option really being the gnomes, but let's go with the humans since size would give away the Mourner plot.

These humans would have had to survive the god wars unconquered and relatively unscathed. This isn't as hard as it sounds given the geographic isolation of the area (only place to attack by is the easily defendable pass) and the apparent lack of valuable resources in the area (Zaros only found out about the World Gate when he went to meet Seren).

So now, we just need our 'Dark Lord' character they want to release. Fortunately enough, Guthix actually provides a fairly good way to fill this. We already know that Guthix drained he gods of most of their power before expelling them from Gielinor. Knowing that so much god energy could lead to the propagation of new gods, Guthix goes to the people in Isafdar who largely avoided participation in the God Wars. There he infuses a large chunk of the drained energies into a construct based on his most powerful memories (namely: Aagi), and tasks the people of the area with protecting and imprisoning this power.

Fast forward a bit, the humans fight and civil war erupts amongst these people, leading to events similar to those of the Plague storyline without the player's intervention. Tyras goes west through the Underground Passage getting himself involved in the conflict over there. Lathas allies with the Mourners, and things proceed as normal until after RotM (Lucien's rampage is mostly him dismantling them as they fail to stop him without our help).

25-Oct-2016 23:14:40

Hguoh

Hguoh

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After the ritual, Hazeel comes back and conquers Ardougne. Shortly thereafter, the Slug Prince (who was already free) takes over a large chunk if not the entirety of Ardougne using the Sea Slugs' natural mind control abilities (again, already were free before we freed Mallum), or simply tricked Hazeel or some 'freedom fighter' into freeing Mallum and then conquered Ardougne, with the Mourners holding a small foothold of control in what is West Ardougne.

Tyras returns to find his kingdom devestated, and ends up siding with the Mourners intending to sacrifice a large chunk of the infected to free the Memory and use her to take back Kandarin, while the Mourners intend to use her to bring about a remaking of Gielinor (like breaking the Edicts was said to do during the Myreque quests).

25-Oct-2016 23:32:31

Hguoh

Hguoh

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As for Kharshai's attack, note that it points out he was leading a small band of Barbarian Savages. My guess as to what happened is that as Koschei the Deathless, Kharshai was the only one able to survive the Dagganoth attack.

Considering Zemouregal is made aware of Kharshai's continued existence by the attack rather than Kharshai regaining his memories, this would appear to indicate that he had not recovered his memories at the time of the attack. As Koschei, he likely traveled to the Barbarian village (hence the small attack force) and eventually led an attack on New Varrock (likely due to Zemo's use of necromancy: which is magic (the Fremmy's don't particularly like) and disrupts the natural order (which again, the Fremmy's don't particularly like).

Upon capture, Zemo likely either realized it was Kharshai upon close proximity, or discovered it after investigating Koschei's possessions (which would likely include the Balmung and the little ship's jewel).

Anyway, the important things are that Kharshai did not have his memories at the time and his attack force was small, and that doesn't indicate well off Fremmies.

25-Oct-2016 23:52:58 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2016 00:03:09 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Actually, the reason why the Vampyres wouldn't have crossed the Salve is probably entirely due to the state of Asgarnia and Misthalin.

Varrock has one resident human.
Edgeville and the Barbarian village likely share Varrock's fate, given the zombie presence in Invention of Disaster.
Burthorpe and Taverly have had their human populations exterminated.
Falador's population has likely been both weakened and decimated by the Kinshra's Void Goo plan and the extermination/expulsion of the White Knights following their conquest of Falador.
Al Kharid will have found itself under Menaphite control due to the Emir's death, Prince's capture, and the failed attempt to trade the Kharid Ib. As such, Al Kharid would be subject to Amascut's machinations, making it an uncertain food source at best.
About half of Rimmington's inabitant's would have had their soul's devoured by the QBD, leaving the population unsustainable.

This leaves Draynor, Port Sarim, and Lumbridge as the primary sources of consistent humans of average strength.

Now, given the Cave Goblin quest series (and we know HAM was successful, thanks to Fenkenbrain), Lumbridge is most likely HAM-land. So a vampiric or lycanthropic force pacifying them is likely going to be met with staunch opposition.

Draynor would probably be fairly well set up for the Drakans, as one of their own was already ruling it before we stepped in, but that's not a very large food supply.

And as for Port Sarim, I can't recall much of anything particularly nasty happening to this town in our absence (Port Sarim Invasion is the direct result of us foiling Jed's attempt at gathering slaves). At best, this renders it in the same place as the MDF, beset by threats on all sides, or has been turned into a regular stop on the Wushanko Isles slave trade.

Going further than that makes any attempt to up and resettle the Vampyre society frankly unfeasible.

26-Oct-2016 06:05:03 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2016 06:13:00 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Penny Drakis said:
Also, Dorgesh-Kaan is no more. It was destroyed recently enough that there were enough intact goblin inventions to reverse engineer several electric appliances. But still. DESTROYED BY THE WRATH OF BANDOS
ZANIK
. Sure, Bandos was likely greatly weakened by Guthix, but it seems that his chosen commander still rose.

ZANIK'S ALIVE!


Erm.... Not quite. Without us there, assuming Zanik ever left Dorgesh-Kaan, Zanik would have died at HAM's hands and had nobody to take her to the Tears of Guthix. More notably, there would have been nobody around to expose Sigmund's attempt to frame the Dorgeshuun.

At best, Zanik would have been leading the Dorgeshuun against an assault by the military of Lumbridge without her Bandos Avatar form (never taken to Yu'biusk) until HAM brought the cave down upon their city.

26-Oct-2016 06:12:27 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2016 06:20:29 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Kittyphantom said:
Going to point out that alt-Zemouregal's Notes actually talk about Bandos' chosen commander. Doesn't name Zanik by name or specify the gender, interestingly, leaving room for doubt (but it may not have been intentional; I don't think it was deliberately vague, so it could easily be Zanik).

Anyway, this chosen commander apparently went to the God Wars Dungeon and helped tip the scales of the battle in the favor of the Bandosians, helping them get and reforge the Godsword. But then the commander was overconfident and freed Nex, promptly being killed.


A large issue with this being Zanik is the knowledge that Bandos had most of his divinity drained by Guthix.

Our version of the chosen commander involved enough of an energy investment (creating the pendant and reviving Zanik) from Bandos that it took him down an entire tier.

Lacking this spare power, I find it somewhat more likely that Bandos would have pursued a less energy intensive method. Perhaps by talking with a certain goblin that could actually hear him and who happened to live much closer to both the GWD and the MDF's front against the goblins: Grubfoot.

26-Oct-2016 13:55:36 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2016 22:56:20 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Penny Drakis said:
Hguoh said:

Al Kharid will have found itself under Menaphite control due to the Emir's death, Prince's capture, and the failed attempt to trade the Kharid Ib. As such, Al Kharid would be subject to Amascut's machinations, making it an uncertain food source at best.


I wouldn't be so confident that Amascut in the Dimension of Disaster AU would be the same Amascut we are familiar with. The whole side quest with the Necrofelinomicon suggests a kinder, gentler Amascut, or at least an Amascut that is not repulsed by cats and who listens to and answers prayers. There is something seriously different about this alternate timeline's Amascut.


Mmm. Fair point. That being said, I don't think she'd take to kindly to Vampyres conquering and feeding on her people regardless of whether she is or is not that nutty in this world.

26-Oct-2016 13:58:49

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Adventurerrr said:
Hguoh said:
Penny Drakis said:
Also, Dorgesh-Kaan is no more. It was destroyed recently enough that there were enough intact goblin inventions to reverse engineer several electric appliances. But still. DESTROYED BY THE WRATH OF BANDOS
ZANIK
. Sure, Bandos was likely greatly weakened by Guthix, but it seems that his chosen commander still rose.

ZANIK'S ALIVE!


Erm.... Not quite. Without us there, assuming Zanik ever left Dorgesh-Kaan, Zanik would have died at HAM's hands and had nobody to take her to the Tears of Guthix. More notably, there would have been nobody around to expose Sigmund's attempt to frame the Dorgeshuun.

At best, Zanik would have been leading the Dorgeshuun against an assault by the military of Lumbridge without her Bandos Avatar form (never taken to Yu'biusk) until HAM brought the cave down upon their city.


According to Zemouregal's notes, Zanik is appointed Chosen Commander by Bandos and goes to the Temple of Lost Ancients to lead Bandos' forces there. Under her leadership, the forces of Bandos push back their enemies, seize all the pieces of the Godsword, and use the reforged weapons to achieve final victory over all other forces. However, Zanik, overconfident in her victory, then discovered and opened the ancient prison beneath the temple and was killed by Nex instantly.

Plus it was stated that the tears of Guthix didn't save her, it was Bandos, That's why when she was dying in Mighty Falls, because Bandos used up his energy to save her, weakening him to a lower tier.


2 things:

1. In Zemouregal's notes never specify that the Chosen Commander of their world is Zanik.
2. Bandos had a notably large chunk of his power drained by Guthix, not exactly leaving him much spare power to say revive a certain cave goblin and infuse an amulet with enough power to make her his Avatar.

27-Oct-2016 05:14:53 - Last edited on 27-Oct-2016 05:15:06 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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HeroicSnorro said:
Adventurerrr said:
Hguoh said:
Penny Drakis said:
Also, Dorgesh-Kaan is no more. It was destroyed recently enough that there were enough intact goblin inventions to reverse engineer several electric appliances. But still. DESTROYED BY THE WRATH OF BANDOS
ZANIK
. Sure, Bandos was likely greatly weakened by Guthix, but it seems that his chosen commander still rose.

ZANIK'S ALIVE!


Erm.... Not quite. Without us there, assuming Zanik ever left Dorgesh-Kaan, Zanik would have died at HAM's hands and had nobody to take her to the Tears of Guthix. More notably, there would have been nobody around to expose Sigmund's attempt to frame the Dorgeshuun.

At best, Zanik would have been leading the Dorgeshuun against an assault by the military of Lumbridge without her Bandos Avatar form (never taken to Yu'biusk) until HAM brought the cave down upon their city.


According to Zemouregal's notes, Zanik is appointed Chosen Commander by Bandos and goes to the Temple of Lost Ancients to lead Bandos' forces there. Under her leadership, the forces of Bandos push back their enemies, seize all the pieces of the Godsword, and use the reforged weapons to achieve final victory over all other forces. However, Zanik, overconfident in her victory, then discovered and opened the ancient prison beneath the temple and was killed by Nex instantly.

Plus it was stated that the tears of Guthix didn't save her, it was Bandos, That's why when she was dying in Mighty Falls, because Bandos used up his energy to save her, weakening him to a lower tier.


Did I miss something really obvious or was this an oversight? Zaros didn't go to Gielinor because he didn't feel Seren's pull, right? How could Nex be resting underneath the temple in that case?

-=HeroicSnorro=-


Simple, Loarnab (the dark imperator) made her.

27-Oct-2016 14:59:15

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Kittyphantom said:
Barbarians were here. Wiped out in a family feud."

Using the orb of oculus to peer at the barbarian village confirms that it's in poor shape. What family feud are they referring to?


I'd assume Kharshai's invasion of New Varrock (and thus attack against Zemouregal).

28-Oct-2016 08:22:45 - Last edited on 28-Oct-2016 08:23:00 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Aleks Leye said:
Penny Drakis said:
Maybe the reason Amascut is a bit saner in the alternate timeline is because she didn't get upset at the mahjarrat and walk off to encounter Mah. I dunno what that has to do with the World Guardian not existing, though.

I'm not sure Amascut is that sane in DoD. After all, Arrav tells us that getting our hands on a canopic jar will be difficult as "they come from the desert, and Amascut has her apes patrolling Al-Kharid."

Its a pretty safe bet that the entire desert region is in her paws, hands, whatever.


Perhaps it's less that she's saner and more that she's won. 'History is written by the victors' and all that.

She takes over, eliminates or drives underground resistance to her rule, and the only people left to say anything about it are those who favor her. I suppose it also helps that she's able to provide a service these cats desired (reviving their mum).

28-Oct-2016 15:07:34

Hguoh

Hguoh

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AesirWarrior said:
N7spongy said:
You know I just thought of something, where the hell is Nomad in all of this? We never foiled his plans, he should be some demigod at this point who killed Lucien already. What if he's a vigilante? Or even more corrupted than in our timeline?


It wouldn't surprise me if Lucien just killed him after all his assasins failed.


My guess is that he's holed up in SW, having become dependent on the obelisk's power (as he says he was starting to be in DaT). On the bright side, he likely has some humans living there too whom he has play the minigame in exchange for providing them a safe haven.

Alternatively, he may have been killed by Lucien, only to not die (much like he didn't when we killed him). At that point, he would have turned to Divination to sustain himself before becoming Death's target of interest.

30-Oct-2016 05:16:21

Hguoh

Hguoh

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HeroicSnorro said:
Alright, I'll bite again. It somewhat bugs me that there is no sign of Vorago's borehole in the DoD universe. He has at least one confirmed awakening with that Maul of Omens incident, so we know he's there alright. Now, we've got the following gods (presumably) running rampant across Gielinor:

- Xau-Tak
- Amascut
- Guthix (though he's most likely napping)

And given enough time, Hazeel will most likely grow into a god as well if he's really in control of that much land. It makes me wonder...

How much does it take for Vorago to wake up again?


Vorago, post being defeated with the Maul of Omens, generally appears to be concerned with threats to the deep places of the plane and testing his own strength.

In a world where most of the gods are not active on Gielinor and those that are aren't all that interested in messing up the Anima, the first is largely annulled.

And without the world guardian and most other non-NPC adventurers , the latter also doesn't really apply either.

So Vorago's probably sitting there under the surface, bored out of his mind.

That being said should the results of the current Halloween event go horribly wrong after we stop assisting the MDF (and it absolutely must, given the how events in that dimension tend to go), the destruction caused by an out of control god construct (especially if it absorbs the rest of their stores of divine energies) could end up with Vorago intervening. Of course, the MDF is borked regardless as either the construct or the upset Vorago will end up annihilating their stronghold.

Edit: Or maybe Vorago will strike a deal with them. He'll protect them, but they need to keep constructing opponents for him to test his strength against.

02-Nov-2016 02:13:08 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2016 02:16:39 by Hguoh

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