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Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[1/5]This is long. There is much to discuss.

"Account temporarily banned for macroing in RuneScape."

Actually, two accounts were banned at the same time. I've invested far too much in these to risk a ban. Both are high level, both as secure as the game lets me make them. Both having spent a costly amount to unlock cosmetics and to play the lotteries with keys and spins to get uniques and skilling aids. Both having spent considerable real world time grinding, by hand, no automation employed, even if available.

Now, two accounts were banned at the same time, but I have another that wasn't. Why those two?

"Our macro detection system has been monitoring your account closely and has detected that you are using illegal 3rd party software which violates the rules of the game and breaches your terms of service with Jagex."

I know what macro recorders/players are and have used them in other applications. These were not "botting apps for game 'X'." There might be an archive copy of such a program on my NAS backup, though the last computer I used that on and the apps I used it for are years gone by now. I have not had even the need to look for updated versions and no computer I've played Runescape on for years has had any such thing installed. The second banned account wasn't even at member status until after the computer and software in question were shelved.

I have not ever used in Runescape/for playing Runescape illegal 3rd party software which violates the rules of the game or breaches my terms of service with Jagex.

All the key presses, all the mouse moves and clicks, all the touchscreen taps and drags, on each and every computer, tablet, and phone I've played on, were mine and not the output of any macro app.

23-Jan-2020 03:06:55

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
{2/5]And "monitoring my accounts closely" brings me back to "why just those two accounts?" That isn't what the rules say would happen. I have read the rules, several times, before and after the self-assured suggestion at the bottom to "Please take this time to familiarise yourself with the rules." Although I did check them again since I was previously familiar, I spent more time being personally offended, angry, and victimized, as well as reevaluating the faith I was trying to maintain in Jagex to almost no faith at all.

"Our team have reviewed the evidence and can confirm that you were using illegal botting software."

This statement is suspect. I only have my information which I am certain of and can at least validate the current existence and state of. In order to keep a bot scanning system secret I'd also expect not to find out anything about this suspect information or suspect confirmation. Any such confirmation is not validated by my experience and system software inventory and installation records.

Also, I don't play in any client except the one provided by Jagex, unmodified, except as updated by Jagex. I've also used the authentication system ever since the incident where my Yahoo e-mail account which Jagex had requested to compliment my profile was compromised and used to hack my main account. This led to the most faith increasing event with Jagex I've ever experienced where after providing ownership proof, I got the account back the same day long before the bank pin would change and only lost port resources that took 8 months to regenerate and still don't have the pin on them to this day.

23-Jan-2020 03:07:16

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[3/5]I have played for over thirteen years this way, following the rules, with one very different exception. The one time accrued a warning level. Though I might have contested it, it was just and I understand the difference. I shouldn't have checked how the language filter could be bypassed in public but I said something aloud before new rules and filtering went into effect and was heard and reported. This made sense, even back then. However, this ban does not. I have never used software that would simulate input or 'bot'

"Jagex are able to accurately detect all illegal 3rd party software and any promises from their makers about being 'totally undetectable' or 'no ban guaranteed' are inaccurate."

I couldn't care less what bot software makers say because I do not and never plan to use their products, much less their viruses, trojans or other exploits. On the other hand, while being an excellent marketing and managerial statement, being able to "accurately detect all" is too close to a perfect condition which in programming of a certain complexity almost never really exists. Then there is the other extreme that if software of any kind used for detection of any kind is very likely to detect all cases, it is also far more likely to issue some false positive results, just so that result being as close to "nothing is missed" can be realized. Then, in cases where human validation must verify results, humans can be wrong, tired, passively accepting of automated reporting, or any number of other failings. It's only human. Doesn't every software entity need bug reporting personnel, tools and/or forums for every system it produces and most especially it's security and rule adherence routines?

23-Jan-2020 03:07:35

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
{4/5]"As such your account has been temporarily removed from the game."

It's much more than that. I did not bot, or macro, or any other equivalent name for it, in my time playing Runescape on any account and on every device I've played. At best, these are false flags. That being the case, the ban directly stole two days of my year prepaid premier membership. Because I have put so much time into this game, being approximately 99% percent of my free waking hours, I do many things that are timely, those are now lost, and that's lost time/lost money as well. The flag and ban which I will go on now calling the mistake, is still persistent. The game removal has lapsed, but since I did not do what I was accused of, I can't change anything to fix the mistake. Fixing the mistake is out of my hands. With the mistake being accepted in game by Jagex as absolute and unquestioned, the mark on my accounts in the conduct record is now extremely likely to cause a permanent ban because of further false flag incidents. Since it happened before, it is almost a certainty to happen again. So in being persistent, and not being able to resolve this myself, I can't play the game anymore. Even though I've played lawfully for years, even though I just paid for another year of membership and have several months of prepaid membership in my billing on the older account.

These days, these accounts, all my invested time and money, are all lost because the bot detection system is faulty. I can't speak to other individual cases and I would bet it's worked thousands of times, but it's failed me, and failed me hard. I must assume everyone playing the game is at risk. I would strongly urge others to be aware of this weakness since it pertains to everyone in the game.

23-Jan-2020 03:07:56

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[5/5]I have appeals in place on both accounts. This does not do well or engender faith considering the time to address is 14 days from when I issued them and the offense of a "bot busting moderate" ban is considered unappealable.

I must have help from Jagex to sort this out, if it can be sorted out. If I can't get help, it ends...canceling all accounts and subscriptions and forwarding requests for refunds of all unutilized assets. My investment is not a small claim, both fiduciary and emotionally, not that the bot busters care or understand. I don't know if anyone that reads this will understand. I couldn't even try to start writing this in the first two days considering the emotions at play. Given the daily part of my life I've let this game become, unhealthy or not, it's too much not to try to hope for a resolution. So hope is my weakness.

If anyone out there knows a way to help raise this up to get attention I would greatly appreciate it.

Mithyr Sar
4th day of exile

23-Jan-2020 03:08:15

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The accounts are playable, and i couldnt post on the forum without the bans lifted, but now instead of playing for fun, i play under the fear of another false flag and then a permanent ban as Ladyolake stated above that happens to most?

Now i'm moved to community help, where other ban messages have already been told theres no jmods that look here.

Since perm bans don't get to post in jagex forum anymore, how do we know how common this is? After all, most bans should be just, actual cases of macro program abuses.

These messages are common enough in reddits in the wild but a lot of those were using non jagex clients and searching them all has been slow going.

23-Jan-2020 17:07:43

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[1/5] Apparently Jagex does not know that multiple accounts can be played by a single person on one or multiple computers without macro software. Maybe it's considered a bug that will never be fixed so as to entrap players. I'm done reporting bugs.

Even knowing it is likely no one who should be aware of much of this might be reading in this out-of-the-public-eye forum, I guess I'll post this for the interested, those who've asked, those that care.

The appeals were denied. I expected this since very similar people to those that confirmed (what I consider as) a faulty system's false flags in what was called "evidence," also confirmed the previous confirmations. The form letter assertions that "... there is sufficient evidence to suggest the offence was applied correctly." is reason to go to trial not to convict without proceedings. "There is no suggestion that the offence was applied in error." is a false assertion, I suggested it was applied erroneously via the limited entry form, but my side would not be heard, so that's convenient. I expected it because the "appeal" was based on no new or defendant supplied information or clarification. I expected it because no mater how much I want to believe the reverse, most people will take the easy route rather than actually looking deeper. Hey, after all, it's just a job, right?

29-Jan-2020 01:14:14

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
{2/5] On some level, I may have expected their response but on the whole, I really didn't. Those form letter replies actually state "However, as this is a temporary offence the good news is that you will be able to return to game once your offence has expired." No, you don't get it. You obviously don't see my point of view in the shelter that hides the rest of the world from you. I can not play anymore without a proverbial gun to my head, and a broken, rickety, poorly coded bot is holding the trigger. The anti-bot system is an automated system after all, yes? There will always be at least one bot. A permanent ban for a repeated offense is now not just possible but likely. So consider the case from my perspective, or consider it a thought experiment if you must:
- If I did not do anything to enable even the possibility of the offense I am accused of, if, considering my responsibility in safe-guarding my own accounts and the systems I play on, I have done to the best of my ability necessary tasks to prevent cases that would put my accounts at risk, yet I was flagged and doubly confirmed of an offense, after going over all programs, websites and apps and finding no hostile or subversive programs or malware, how can I play the game again much less have fun doing so? (Having fun being the intent of a playing game, by which providing said fun, the game maker proposes to make profit. I felt that last needed saying plainly.)

29-Jan-2020 01:14:37

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[3/5] What if something is in my computer, or open in a web application? Firstly: to intent. I have not done anything deliberately to even try to bot yet because I am responsible for my account, I am treated like I allowed a supposed thing to occur with full volition on my part. If there were a "bomb," a fact in serious doubt from my perspective (see due diligence scope below), I did not put the "bomb" in my house, I did at least more than my standard due diligence to prevent it. If something was attached to my browsers, or my computers, no security flags on my end were raised. If such a thing is possible and it works without raising local security flags and a server of content can see it, it may behoove said server to make a user or at least the community as a whole aware of it, thereby safe-guarding the community as a whole rather than ostracizing several members in secret and not helping to fix the root problem! Secondly: scope of due diligence. I don't keep programs I don't use. Every program is a security hole, even the Runescape official client. And I have many computers running several checked, legal, legally obtained, official programs. I have also used the Chrome browser concurrently with playing the game for over a decade. I've played with no previously indicated issues. My first account is over 13 years old. As far as game play continuity, I've been playing the game as I was up until the false ban for over the last five years without incident except for the recovery from the Yahoo mail breach hack on my main. It affected no other accounts and the authentication was employed from then on with a two factor authenticated email.

29-Jan-2020 01:15:18

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[4/5] (Cont.) As for changes, there has recently been installation of hardware and software, Discord, apps and some streaming hardware additions to note. These have not raised any issue I have been aware of nor are they flagged as harmful by any checks I engaged. All manually installed software either can not issue macros, is not set up to or is not allowed to. Specifically, as far as I been able to determine with the software on the computers I use, there is no macro capability within any installed software or hardware that isn't hard-coded into Windows10 or drivers for HMI devices. Any applicable software that might be able to be configured as such is not loaded if possible to operate without or not enabled if capable of being toggled. No hardware that I use that can have macros set up is enabled if such a setting is available. Also, if this has to do with web sites running something in the background that is doing something "fishy," the browser has not flagged any issues. Neither has my internal security software flagged anything. Again, best case scenario, as much as it is possible for code inserted beyond user's control on apps or web sites, would it not behoove a server side institution to publicize sensed flaws rather than keep them secret thus putting everyone effected by the flaws at risk, especially their rule abiding, faithful, paying members?

29-Jan-2020 01:15:40

Mithyr Sar

Mithyr Sar

Posts: 110Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[5/5] I've not been a player who has managed to take time promoting many friendships, much less relationships with many fellow players. But I've had a few very good friends here. Many have tried to send messages, to speak on my behalf. A few new ones I've met recently have tried to help. A couple have done enormously more than even the staff of the game to try to help. But their contacts and tools are limited. I thank them so much for their efforts, every one of you. I don't have the words to say what it means to me, somehow this paragraph seems five times too short for the lack of them. As for the problem at hand, I've done as much as I could do and what little I am permitted to do. But in the end, I did not choose this. I did not get to make the choice. I was set up psychologically to play this game by hand on all nine member accounts I've been paying for until Runescape shut down or I did or until I couldn't really play anymore.

Capricious dictators have control. Play at your own risk.

It isn't fun anymore.

Mithyr Sar

29-Jan-2020 01:18:09

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