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Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?

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SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

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My suggestion: Ban Alt1, or more specifically the puzzle solver within it.



^ Alt1 in use ^ is this cheating?


For those that don't know: Alt1 is third-party software that sits above your Runescape client. It tells you exactly where to click and in what order. It basically records your screen in real-time and throws up indicators that you simply click on when they move and it does all the thinking for you.

It's similar to how Chess cheats work, however it sits on-top of your client and you can click 'through' it, so its actually more advanced than chess cheats (which are considered hard-cheating in the chess world).

It automates the solving of dynamic content, IE content designed to be solved by the player without use of a guide.

Alt1 plots out all possible dig spots and narrows them down by analysing your unique whereabouts (using triangulation). It uses visual indicators of where you need to click and in what order, in real time. All you have to do is click the indicators Alt1 generates and that goes through into the game. It offers 'paint by numbers' gaming essentially.

'Dynamic content' is specifically intended to be done by the individual and not by a bot. People make a lot of money running this third-party script/program and they bypass spending 1.5m on skip tickets. Those that use Alt1 can solve 5x as many clues in the time it takes an ordinary person to, potentially making them very rich.

Youtube / RS Wiki cannot solve dynamic content as it is random, they can only show you 'how' to solve these elements of the game by teaching you techniques. With YT/Wiki you learn something, with Alt1 it just does it for you.

This is a follow on from our thread 'ALT1 - is it cheating? or no?' in General.
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I'll do my best to represent all the opinions we formulated for and against.

Feel free to discuss whether you think Alt1 is cheating or not. Keep it civil!
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31-Aug-2021 10:35:54 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2021 11:59:40 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll get a lot of stick for this (because so many people use it) but it needs to be said.
ALT-1 is cheating, in every sense apart from the auto-clicking. I think it should be banned

ALT-1, for those who don't know, is a program (a piece of external software) or the nice-sounding way of putting it is 'toolkit' for Runescape. It is most commonly used to solve randomised clue scroll puzzles at 5x the speed an average person would be able to.

It records data from your Runescape Client and indicates where to click and in what order via translucent markers on screen, all in real time.

ALT-1's primary purpose is to solve dynamic (randomised) content such as clue puzzles. Why is this an issue? If it can solve clue puzzles with a transparent overlay, it can tell you where to click in a boss fight at the exact right moment. This is a problem that needs to be addressed before it gets to that point. We need to go back in time to save John Connor! I mean Runescape :P



- Jokes aside, the threat of 'paint-by-numbers' or 'indicator' bossing and PVM/PVP is real (if you allow this technology).

ALT-1 is free and spreading like wildfire. A lot of Runescape streamers and youtubers are recommending it in their videos because Jagex has not officially disapproved of it.

My concern - why bother with randomised content at all, if you are going to let players use a program that does it for them? (bar clicking). The whole purpose of it being random is so you cannot easily solve it using a guide. Using AI to play Runescape is (or should be) against the rules.

There are already in-game items that solve the puzzle for you, they are called skip tickets and they cost 1.5m each. People are using Alt1 to bypass an ingame mechanic and give themselves an unfair advantage. Third-party software is 'use at your own risk' thus 'unavailable' to those who don't wish to risk their account security.



So, why pay 1.5m on a skip ticket when ALT-1 is free?
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31-Aug-2021 10:35:58 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2021 12:11:02 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
ALT1 may not currently be considered 'cheating' in the traditional sense as most of us know cheating on RS as automatic input (auto clicking) whilst a player is AFK.

ALT1 does not input anything into Runescape (it'd get caught otherwise). Instead, you click where it shows you to with indicators (in-game effectively via overlay). You're just the mechanical operator of the script.

The program calculates real-time data by sitting above your game client, screen recording your unique whereabouts and puzzle combination. It alters your game virtually using digital tracing paper with clickable indicators.

It cheats past dynamic content, things designed to be solved by the individual themselves. It tells you what to do and when to do it, in real-time, and does it in seconds. A static 'guide' cannot do this.

If you can bypass solving player-unique content with a third-party program (so long as you enter in the commands of your script manually), why bother having randomised content at all?

There are puzzle skip tickets in game, they cost 1.5m each, if you don't wish to solve the puzzle then that's your in-game solution. Its simple: you trade GP for time saved. I don't think it is acceptable to let players bypass this mechanic whilst others pay to play the way it was intended.

I understand if Jagex don't want to ban it simply because it's hard to detect, but there are ''clues'' that tell you when somebody is using a script like ALT-1.


I doubt even world record puzzle solvers could match this pace and accuracy ^

ALT-1 may seem benign now, but what about when this exact same overlay indicator technology tells you exactly where to stand and what to do during a boss fight? or in PVP?

If you allow these third party programs to run wild, you'll have people buying/selling scripts each time a new boss comes out to avoid learning the mechanics. Thoughtless clicking of indicators generated by AI is not good for any game. Please consider banning this.
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31-Aug-2021 10:36:00 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2021 12:30:03 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
- Those who use it gain an unfair advantage (time & wealth)
- It is a program specifically designed to solve randomised content
- (Randomised content is an in-game mechanic to deter guide use)
- Randomised content is used when wealth can be gained (usually)
- ALT-1 solves randomised content by screen-recording your client
- It tells you where to click and in what order by on-screen indicators
- It could be used to solve other 'dynamic content' such as PVM
- Potential to impersonate you in account recovery with screenshots (?)
- Puzzle skip tickets are available if you don't want to solve it yourself.
- Has features that bypass existing in-game mechanics (spending 1.5m)
- It takes +80 steps to complete a puzzle with 100% accuracy using Alt1.
- Saves a significant amount of time and wealth (1.5m each time) using Alt1.
- It affects the economy (that we all share) if it didn't it'd probably be fine.
- The program ALT-1 is cheat software only without the auto-click
- Tell me this kind of thing isn't cheating -

The main supporting argument of Alt1 seems to be that it is available to all, therefore it is not an unfair advantage. Whilst that may be true, in the literal sense, the same way any open-source software is 'available to all', it's availability depends on whether you are willing to risk your account security by using it. Many youtubers are promoting this software.

Alt1 when only a few use it - unfair advantage over those that don't use it.
Alt1 when everyone uses it - puzzle skip tickets become redundant and the game simply becomes easier for the sake of being easier. Its a lose-lose situation.
- Allowing this technology also leaves the door open for PVM/PVP indicator scripts.

I know clue scrolls arent a big thing to everybody, but to some they are. Saying its not a big deal because its only a small part of the game is like saying its OK to have a bot for 1 skill, as its only a small portion of the game. Not acceptable in my opinion.
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31-Aug-2021 10:36:03 - Last edited on 11-Sep-2021 11:53:11 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
^ UPVOTES
- ban it! it's cheating!

- A Cole
- Tuffty
- Jack Flac
- WTFmybacon
- Bradinat0r
- PiraBob
- Jeremy Cheng
- Farbror Adam
- Snowbuddy
-

Quick find code: 14-15-894-66225030 (votes based off our previous thread on this topic)
Please correct me if your name is in the wrong list, or if you want your name removing.


Original message details are unavailable.
you undertake that you will not (and will not permit or encourage or procure others directly or indirectly to):
...
d. combine, associate, wrap-around, integrate, or align, any third-party software, components or add-on features with the Software or any part of it, in any manner whatsoever;

https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/eula
Version 3.0 (July 2021)
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31-Aug-2021 10:36:06 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2021 17:07:20 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
- NEUTRAL
- not sure

- Kings Abbot
+

- Si1verCloud
- M** A** - (pending)
- J R Kerr
- Tenebri
-

- Rikornak
-

-

Quick find code: 14-15-894-66225030 (votes based off our previous thread on this topic)
Please correct me if your name is in the wrong list, or if you want your name removing.
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31-Aug-2021 10:36:09 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2021 09:53:55 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
v DOWNVOTES
- don't ban it! it's not cheating!

- Daddy Hero
- DarthChosen
- C a z
- Indy Cision
- Vengeance of
- xxqw56chxx
- D********** - (pending)
- D********** - (pending)
- T**** M** - (pending)
- C***** - (pending)
- D**** B**** - (pending)
- A**** U - (pending)
- A******* - (pending)
- L*** - (pending)
- 9* D** S**** - (pending)
- I*** C***** - (pending)
-

(pending) = those that expressed it was not cheating in the original thread.

Quick find code: 14-15-894-66225030 (votes based off our previous thread on this topic)
Please correct me if your name is in the wrong list, or if you want your name removing.


Original message details are unavailable.
Tren
- "Using ALT1 is currently not against the Rules of RuneScape nor the Terms and Conditions (https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms)"

"Jagex has not ‘approved’ any third-party programs and strongly recommends you only use their official clients. Use of third-party software that does comply with the Rules of RuneScape is at your own risk"

Original message details are unavailable.
Reddit
- "It doesn't appear you can use it to control or automate game play, so it's unlikely it could cause any problems with our anti-cheating detection methods, ie; players shouldn't be banned for using it"
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31-Aug-2021 10:38:05 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 10:14:19 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So, as long as we 'enter in manually' what a bot/script tells us to do, its all OK? Hmm...

I have read the unofficial clients post (for OSRS) dated: 30/09/2019 -
"We consider features which enable you to bypass gameplay mechanics to be unacceptable, like those which might indicate where projectiles would land, where NPCs might spawn, or which protection prayers to activate."
whilst it may not be 'where projectiles land', the method and execution would be the same. I believe this to be an example, as there would be too many variations to list.

Unacceptable features:
"Anything that automatically indicates where to stand, or not to stand. This applies to only automatic indicators, and not tiles which have been manually marked"
- Alt1 creates automatic indicators for you via a click-through overlay (which may as well be in-game, as the end result would be exactly the same) Source 2.

"this is not an exhaustive list, and we reserve the right to add features to this list in future. We’ll continue to monitor community concerns about other specific features and offer more clarity if it’s needed."
- They are open to change.

Source 1:
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/c=kpvWN8yzBzo/a-message-about-unofficial-clients?oldschool=1


Source 2:
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/another-message-about-unofficial-clients?oldschool=1


I am going off the assumption these are global principles and apply to both OSRS & RS3.




REDDIT (6 years ago) - It appears OK to use
But the question is - Should it be?


To be continued
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31-Aug-2021 10:52:10 - Last edited on 04-Sep-2021 15:28:54 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FOR
/
AGAINST
/
NEUTRAL

- the banning of Alt1 -


"you dont need to do anything special to DL alt1, it's available to everyone"

It is not available on the Runescape website, or linked anywhere in-game. You need to be the type of person who seeks out and downloads cheats.
counterargument?
-
Not all have bad intentions, many aren't aware of it's implications.


"I don't specifically have a problem with it in regards to the clue part, as that's only saving a person time from alt-tabbing to the RS Wiki"

RS Wiki cannot solve these puzzles, they can only show you techniques on how to solve them. They don't actually solve them for you using in-game/on-game indicators.
counterargument? - But it still gives you the answers.
The issue is not just what it does, but more how it does it.


"Anyone who has played chess knows that chess engines are much stronger than humans, yet all they do is calculate the best moves and human manually inputs them. And that is considered hard CHEATING in chess community. The definition of cheating is something that gives one player unfair advantage over other players. Does Alt1 do that? Of course it does!"
Counterargument?


"If a computer makes the decision of where the click should be, it is not a human decision and therefore is a bot. This alone is why overlays are cheats and why ALT1 specifically should be against the rules"
Counterargument?


"Use entirely at your own risk. If you are found to be banned and/or hijacked after utilizing third-party software programs, then it is your responsibility and not that of Jagex's for the actions that you have taken"


To be continued
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31-Aug-2021 11:05:49 - Last edited on 01-Sep-2021 10:42:33 by SlR

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,645Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FOR
/
AGAINST
/
NEUTRAL

- the banning of Alt1 -


"Its just an easier "guide" than anything else. Its the same as using a Youtube guide"
They operate entirely differently.

"I've never heard of anyone being hacked after using it"
You don't take the locks off your door just because you've never been burgled.

"Why is it not fine when we can integrate even more complicated "overlay" such as wealth calculator into Jagex's games?"
Wealth evaluator 'was' a paid feature. Skipping tickets 'are' a paid feature. Alt1 negate(s/ed) both.

"Jagex and a good number of ppl seem to think different as its being used be a good number of ppl including jmods"
That is their choice, it doesn't make it right.

The future of overlay indicators being used in Runescape may spread to PVM and PVP
-
"Yet theres no point in worry about the future because no one can tell what will/wont happen"

Yet the same arguments would apply for that utilisation: real-time next move indicators.

"What you think doesn't matter if we are talking about Jagex's LEGALLY BOUND Terms and Conditions and Rules. Jagex clearly said Alt1 is "fine to use" and using it won't get us banned. Their Terms & Condition and Rules don't show anything different either"
- Acknowledged

There are way too many
'its not against the rules so its not cheating'
responses to list.

Jack Flac -
"We know it's not currently against their rules as it is worded. The main point of threads like these, is to start the dialogue to move things forward so it eventually ends up in the same space as things like flower games and dicing did. It may not currently be against the rules, but hopefully by having these kinds of discussions, one day it will end up being against the rules.


TBC
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31-Aug-2021 11:05:52 - Last edited on 01-Sep-2021 17:48:53 by SlR

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