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Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?

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xxqw56chxx

xxqw56chxx

Posts: 1,337Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No support.

As mentioned through out this thread, ALt1 is beyond helpful so just because a small minority dont like it isnt a reason for it to be banned.

Theres lots of things i dislike yet im not calling for them to be removed/banned.
xx*w56c***
King of the Weebs

08-Oct-2021 00:31:41

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,865Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I agree Alt1 is helpful (in gaining a competitive advantage) over those that don't use it (whether it be through choice, integrity or acc security concerns of using third-party software, or that they're simply unaware of it's existence). The reason(s) for wanting it banned isn't simply because we dislike it, it's because it goes against Runescape ethos and game rules. clickable 'next move' indicators are not allowed.

" ‘botting.' It means using software or hardware that can help you play the game with the software or hardware doing things for you that you should be doing yourself. Our games are meant to be played by humans"


Is this how the game was intented to be played? if this technology is fine to use then what is stopping people making the same 'next click' overlays for bossing or pvp? It's cheating.

"Play the game yourself, making sure you are in control of everything."

"We consider features which enable you to bypass gameplay mechanics to be unacceptable, like those which might indicate where projectiles would land, where NPCs might spawn, or which protection prayers to activate."

Some feel that as long as it doesn't use an auto-clicker then its fine, but that's hardly worth mentioning, as clicking alone is not how you play this game. Would you play a game of chess against somebody that had 'next move' indicators, where all they had to do was click where a computer script told them to?

Thanks for commenting.
Per Ardua Ad Ast*a
. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. 1% inspiration 99% perspiration.

08-Oct-2021 07:28:45 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 10:12:43 by SlR

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 75,047Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SlR said:
I agree Alt1 is helpful (in gaining a competitive advantage) over those that don't use it (whether it be through choice, integrity or acc security concerns of using third-party software, or that they're simply unaware of it's existence). The reason(s) for wanting it banned isn't simply because we dislike it, it's because it goes against Runescape ethos and game rules. clickable 'next move' indicators are not allowed.


All of those point are by choice though.

Everyone has access to this so theres no "competitive advantage" and definitely no security issues with this whatsoever.

Plus if this did go against the rules, it wouldve been banned already.

Yet jagex havent done a thing about it.

SlR said:


" ‘botting.' It means using software or hardware that can help you play the game with the software or hardware doing things for you that you should be doing yourself. Our games are meant to be played by humans"



Do we have to yet again prove that this isnt botting? How many times do you have to be told this isnt equal to botting?
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

Support & Party Hats on Solomons

08-Oct-2021 23:59:51 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 00:00:48 by Draco Burnz

Vengeance of
Mar Member 2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,098Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No support. It's really not that much different from having the Wiki (officially owned by Jagex, by the way) open on another monitor and pulling up a step-by-step guide for quests or what have you (I wonder how many have beaten Elemental Workshop 3 without a guide?). Hell, the Wiki even has the answers for the anagrams, co-ordinate clues, all possible scan locations, all of the challenge scrolls, the riddles... pretty much everything. Should Jagex start scrubbing the Wiki, too?

I also have to agree with Draco; Alt1's been around (and Jagex has surely been aware of it) for years, and Jagex hasn't been afraid to shut down sites and programs that they consider to be unfair (even resorting to lengthy, expensive lawsuits if necessary); and yet, they've never moved against Alt1, not even slightly. That refusal to take action against them speaks volumes; for all intents and purposes, their inaction is a sign of their tacit approval.

And if this is actually a problem... maybe it's time to retire the puzzles and replace them with activities that can't be trivialized with a guide. Some actual tests of skill (in-game skills, and otherwise), more emote clues that require a considerable time/gp investment to clear, maybe even some more combat.

09-Oct-2021 01:02:05 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 01:04:44 by Vengeance of

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 2,865Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said:


If this did go against the rules, it wouldve been banned already.

Yet jagex havent done a thing about it.

Well, gambling was rife for months and nothing was done about that. Didn't make it OK. People on the forums argued it's their money and they could do as they please with it.

They werent concerned about any long-term implications then, and they aren't concerned about any now. It's a similar story just written a different way, although not quite as bad.

I wouldn't assume just because they haven't done anything about it (yet) that they condone it. They don't advertise Alt1 anywhere in-game or on the website. They do with Wiki and YT.

Original message details are unavailable.
SlR said:


" ‘botting.' It means using software or hardware that can help you play the game with the software or hardware doing things for you that you should be doing yourself. Our games are meant to be played by humans"



Do we have to yet again prove that this isnt botting? How many times do you have to be told this isnt equal to botting?

Maybe the same amount of times you need to be told that Alt1 is nothing like Wiki guides or Youtube. Wiki & YT teach you how to solve things (you learn something), Alt1 does not teach you anything, it just does it for you with on-screen indicators that you simply click on.

Per Ardua Ad Ast*a
. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. 1% inspiration 99% perspiration.

09-Oct-2021 12:22:33

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 75,047Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SlR said:


I wouldn't assume just because they haven't done anything about it (yet) that they condone it. They don't advertise Alt1 anywhere in-game or on the website. They do with Wiki and YT.



Yet they didnt advertise wiki till after it got added to the game.

So it was treated just like alt1 before that happened.

I mean the wiki even had to change sites due to malware and what not yet ive yet to see alt1 do that once.

So it seems to me that theres more risk with wiki than alt1 as ppl can freely edit it thus cause problems with it.

Makes you wonder if jagex should trust it so highly.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

Support & Party Hats on Solomons

09-Oct-2021 15:01:06

PiraBob

PiraBob

Posts: 37,441Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said:
PiraBob said:

Nonaction is not the same as approval. If it were bug abuse would not exist, nor would we have thousands of bugs in this game that never get fixed, plenty of which can be abused. By the letter of the rule Alt1 is against the rules.


Yea i fail to see any connection between alt1 and bug abuse.

Its just a helpful app someone made like the oshd or w/e, which later got approved by the jmods.


It's about cheating and cheaters getting away with it because Jagex doesn't care or whatnot. Your argument is simply "some folks get away with alt1 therefore it is okay" when ethics don't work that way. By the letter of the rules Alt1 is cheating, simple as that. Same as that bug abuse is cheating. That folks get away with it doesn't mean it's not cheating.
Bob

09-Oct-2021 17:04:08

Vengeance of
Mar Member 2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,098Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
PiraBob said:

Your argument is simply "some folks get away with alt1 therefore it is okay" when ethics don't work that way.


No, his argument is that "Jagex has literally taken no action against it despite being aware of it, therefore they must think it's okay".

Alt1 has existed for years. Jagex has known about it for years. If they had an issue with it, they would have done something by now, whether it was announcing that they considered it cheating, banning the people who have used it, or actively taking legal action to shut it down (all things that they have done with software that they consider cheating).

But they haven't done anything, so they very clearly don't.

They ban bots. They ban bug abusers. They ban people using software they disapprove of. And yet, they've never done anything about Alt1. What does that say to you?

09-Oct-2021 17:26:51 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 17:30:31 by Vengeance of

X Ferdi X
Feb Member 2012

X Ferdi X

Posts: 4Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
First sorry for my bad english and grammar!

In my Opinion Jagex don´t do anything because so much people use it and they were to lazy to stop it in the beginning now they can´t without losing a lot of player or should i say active customers?!
Alt1 is not a direct cheat but it works like it to "save time/get more money" and do things you can´t do that easily without it. Yes everybody can use it at own risk !
I played over 600 days RS without alt1 and don´t wanna risk it ... now i want trimmed comp cape and playing fish flingers ... in that minigame you can get a place and always people with the toolkit are on the stand, conicidence? no they got an unfair advantage!
That was just 1 simple example there are 100 more unfair features maybe the afk timer or the puzzle solver ... Is it that hard to put an afk timer in the game for everybody not using an extra programm ?

Jagex need to do something about alt1 toolkit

Make it viable for everyone in game not as third party programm or ban it for the future (yes it will lose a lot of active players which use it so maybe integrate some functions into the game ??? So you don´t lose that people already using it!!!)

For me i will never use it at own risk or as third party programm and save me a lot of time because i got fun with Runescape this game is my favorite game since 2010 i want to play it even if i am disadvantaged but really do something for all !

Just Jagex can help us with this Alt1 discussion.
There must be a reason they don´t ban or promote it, and yes i really wanna know that reason !

I personally vote against alt1 because i didn´t use it if i would use it the last years i definitelly vote the other side because i can´t play anymore without that features and again just Jagex can do something here, i really hope we are enough People to get a reaction from Jagex.

Last words i really like Jagex and that they update this game every single week but don´t splitt your community

09-Oct-2021 19:02:56

PiraBob

PiraBob

Posts: 37,441Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vengeance of said:
PiraBob said:

Your argument is simply "some folks get away with alt1 therefore it is okay" when ethics don't work that way.


No, his argument is that "Jagex has literally taken no action against it despite being aware of it, therefore they must think it's okay".

Alt1 has existed for years. Jagex has known about it for years. If they had an issue with it, they would have done something by now, whether it was announcing that they considered it cheating, banning the people who have used it, or actively taking legal action to shut it down (all things that they have done with software that they consider cheating).

But they haven't done anything, so they very clearly don't.

They ban bots. They ban bug abusers. They ban people using software they disapprove of. And yet, they've never done anything about Alt1. What does that say to you?


Plenty of bug abusers or bots don't get banned. Bug abusers rarely get banned, usually get away with it unless it's treasure hunter bugs. Jagex probably just doesn't think it's worth investing more manpower or resources into it or doesn't care one way or another about the integrity of their game. Bug abuse is so commonplace some bugs literally get explanations on how to abuse them on the wiki without Jagex doing anything about it.
Bob

09-Oct-2021 19:19:12 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2021 19:20:22 by PiraBob

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