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Eridyn

Eridyn

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RiDaku said:


Furthermore, and this is something a community discussion could prove fruitful for, is:Should either guide have a single post dedicated to telling people about the state of the W42 Roleplay community? Things like warning them about vendettas or grudges that might affect witnessed interactions, or not to get too invested (and if they do, to pull back the moment they feel uncomfortable or unwell). <-That isn't something exactly new to us, we've lost quite a few people because they were too emotionally invested in our community and when our cooperation dropped, so did their mental health. Of course, this last post itself is something a separate thread would be good for (for discussion purposes.)


Something like this is not a topic that should be placed on a thread and have attention drawn to it. It is also close to being against RS Forum rules, which does not allow anyone to flame or harass one another, which a thread listing the grudges has the danger of very easily becoming. I wouldn't pursue this idea any further.
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20-Jul-2018 21:22:24 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:24:07 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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RiDaku said:
Eridyn said:
which a thread listing the grudges has the danger of very easily becoming.


I wasn't saying that we should have a post or a thread talking about who's upset at who. I was saying that we should let people know that it exists, and definitely has an effect on how smoothly things go.


By giving credence to them on the forums though, it gives them legitimacy in a more official capacity, which shouldn't be encouraged. The grudges are between the people themselves, not the community as a whole, and if it is, it should be discouraged by not giving it any platform to be scrutinized on. Let that remain between discussions outside the RS forums.
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20-Jul-2018 21:50:06 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:51:06 by Eridyn

Eridyn

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I will post a more thorough explanation of my views on each thread later, but currently in "A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay" there is a spare post that could easily be used for information on how to navigate the forums, which is something the "In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help" lacks and the thread creator suggested be placed in this thread. I don't believe the whole Quick Intro thread needs to be changed to reflect navigating the forums, not do I believe either thread needs to be taken down.

There is bound to be some overlapping information given both refer to Roleplaying in Runescape. But while the Guide aims to cover RP in a much broader sense, with a larger satirical tone to make the thread more amiable, the Quick Intro delivers purely information as clearly as it can. I see no problem with having similar information, so long as both threads stick to their intended purpose; A Larger Guide, and a Quick Introduction.

When I get the chance, I will talk about my feedback and suggestions in greater detail, but this post reflects my core views for the most part, which is the fact that I find both threads are distinguishable enough to be separate threads, but some tweaks and edits to fix them and make it more clear can be implemented, if there is a general consensus that there needs to be a change.
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22-Jul-2018 16:55:12 - Last edited on 22-Jul-2018 17:01:38 by Eridyn

Eridyn

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Twillow said:
1. Explicitly and concisely, what do you, the community, see as the purposes for each of the threads? Do these purposes distinguish the two threads or does it merge them?

2. Could you please analyze the content that is currently in the two threads (some of this has already been done, I see)? What is different? What is similar? What is unnecessary? What is missing?


The following is my opinion on both threads. I will dissect each thread on points I find are helpful, and are not, using neutral tones. At the time of this writing, both threads contained the following information listed and quoted below. Any changes made after this post, to either thread, are not reflected below.

First, the purpose of each thread. As it currently stands, there is no longer an Official RuneScape forum for forum roleplaying, as there once had been. Currently, the only forum dedicated to roleplay specifies it as being in-game, so this piece will act on the assumption that the only roleplay that exists currently is in-game and reflect such in its content.

To begin, both threads state their function clearly within their name: “A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay” and “In-Game RolePlay Guide & Help.” Starting with A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay, the thread has a single page of ten posts dedicated to relaying the following information:

1. “Hello, and welcome to in-game roleplaying”
2. “What is in-game roleplay”
3. “How to find in-game RP”
4 & 5. “Types of in-game roleplay.”
6. “Symbols used for In-Game Roleplay.”
7. A spare post.
8. “The dynamics of the roleplay community.”
9. “Tips for in-game roleplaying.”
10. “Further Help”

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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23-Jul-2018 01:15:26

Eridyn

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The content for “In-Game RolePlay Guide & Help” meanwhile, is made up of five pages of forty-five posts dedicated to relaying the following information:

Post 1: Introduction, Who are RolePlayers, But WHAT is roleplay?
Post 2: A table of contents highlighting the different sections of
Post 3: How do you roleplay? Designing an outfit, choosing a faith, selecting a personality.
Post 4: How do you roleplay? (Part 2) Textplay, Themeplay, Gameplay.
Post 5: The Rules; Don’ts – Godmodding/God mode’ing, Being “overpowered,” Lorebreaking.
Post 6: A continuation of the rules. Metagaming, Extensive Powerplaying, Play the World Guardian.
Post 7: Another continuation of the rules: Do’s – cooperation: Be Courteous, Just be a nice person, take action against rulebreakers, a link to the forum specific rules for the In-Game Roleplaying section.
Post 8: Symbols; Actions, Commorb, telepathy, Whispering/Yelling, Emphasis, Language.
Post 9: OOC Note, Thought, Speech, Mental Persuasion.
Post 10: Lore Bends, Breaks, and Custom Content.
Post 11: Character Development and Balancing.
Post 12: Character Death; Die, Haunt, Revival.
Post 13, 14, 15: Spheres of Roleplay; Public. Private, Sandbox.
Post 16: Events in Roleplay.
Post 17: Extended Guides.
Post 18, 19, 20, 21: Unofficial Rules of Roleplay; Ask before you kill, Attack justification, Assault warning, Private is Private, Temporary royalty, contemporary values, Right to choose.
Post 22: Text Vs. Gameplay
Post 23, 24: Scaling; Land Scaling, Time Scaling,
Post 25: Clichés; Tavern Roleplay/ “Barpee”, Grittiness.
Post 26: Extra Post for future clichés; last edited January 9th, 2017.
Post 27, 28, 29, 30: Character Sheet.
Post 31, 32: A Note on how we do things.
Post 33: Useful Threads
Post 34: Borders
Post 35: Tips
Post 36: Mentors
Post 37: Spare
Post 38: Spare
Post 39: Spare
Post 40: Spare
Post 41: Spare
Post 42: Spare
Post 43: Discussion Rules
Post 44: Special Thanks
Post 45: Closing Statement.

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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23-Jul-2018 01:16:03

Eridyn

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Let us first look at the similarities. Both threads have their first two posts dedicated to introducing the reader to roleplay, having a heading that is simplistically titled “What is Roleplay?” However, the context of each one is primarily different. Within “A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay” the definition of roleplay is as follows:

CrocoNuts said:
In-game roleplay is when you create your own character with a role and backstory into the world of Gielinor, to interact with other like-minded folk and their characters. The designated worlds for this are 42 (members) and 41 (non-members).


The core of roleplaying is via actions and dialogue: a simple guide on how to structure both of these is here. Simply put, once you denote yourself as being ‘In-Character’, your following chat text will be understood as being representative of your character.


Other players will provide your character interactions and character development, which is essentially what role-playing is: one big story written and narrated by the players themselves.


The definition of Roleplay within “In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help” is as follows:

RiDaku said:

RolePlay is pretty much fanfiction. Nine times out of ten it isn't considered canon in the universe the roleplay takes place in. It's when two or more writers get together to create a world and a story, never taking on the job alone, but instead allowing the others involved to freely affect the world as they see fit. Of course there's etiquette and general do's and dont's, but past that every RolePlay has its own set of rules. Imagine writing Game of Thrones, but your best friend or a total stranger adds in from time to time. That's RolePlay.


(Continued)
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23-Jul-2018 01:16:14 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 01:39:17 by Eridyn

Eridyn

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The "In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help" thread attempts to define RolePlay in a broader sense, while the “A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay” thread focuses on defining role-play in RuneScape itself, which I find is more relevant to the RP community as a whole, and to potential newcomers, as it focuses solely on defining this-specific community's role-playing in the platform which it is undertaken, the RuneScape MMO. What I would do with the current definition on “In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help,” is change the definition to be more relevant to RuneScape, even if it were to remain defined in a broader sense.

On the third post of each thread, the direction changes. In “A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay”, the topic shifts to “How to find In-Game RP” while in “In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help” the topic shifts to “How to roleplay.” Whereas the Quick-Intro thread advises the reader to browse the In-Game Roleplaying forum, or to log into RuneScape itself and search for players in Falador, the guide focuses on explaining to the reader on the following topics: Designing an outfit, choosing a faith, and selecting a personality. These topics are not reflected anywhere in the Quick-Intro thread.

The following post in the Guide thread proceeds to list three recognized styles of roleplay; textplay, themeplay, and gameplay. Three things that, once again, are not in the Quick-Intro thread.

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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23-Jul-2018 01:16:22 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:42:56 by Eridyn

Eridyn

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The next post the Quick-Intro covers is titled: “Types of in-game roleplay”, which lists the following; Barpee, combat focused, magic focused, events, plots, Kingdom interact, and lastly Sandbox and/or Private-roleplay. There is a similar list on the Guide thread, page 2 posts 3, 4, and 5 titled “Spheres of Roleplay.” These cover the following in much broader depth; Public, Private and Sandbox. While the Quick-Intro uses the terms Sandbox and Private, it merges them together as being one synonymous entity, while the Guide lists them as separate things. The definition of Sandbox or Private RP in the Quick-Intro is as follows;

CrocoNuts said:

• Sandbox or Private role-play
A sandbox/private roleplay is one set outside the public canon of roleplay. These can range from just being closed-off roleplays, or span into lorebending adventures. Due to the adverse conditions usually at play within these roleplays, they are not considered as canon by the broader public community.


(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
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23-Jul-2018 01:20:01 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:50:32 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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The definition of Private roleplay in the Guide-thread is as follows:

RiDaku said:
Private

Private roleplay is a magical place. Whatever the GM decrees is law. A good Gamemaster will manage to shift the story away from their characters and make just about everyone feel important to the story as it develops, but even more intricately comes the careful balance of RuneScape and custom content. Often, the leaders of a private roleplay will expand RuneScape lore rapidly to fill in all the holes of lore left by Jagex. This may mean there is more than just the metals or gemstones provided, highly magical items with large enchantments, custom races, custom ethnicity of existing species, and even custom religions.

When an argument between players or a lore contradiction surfaces, it is up to the GM to figure out an outcome that allows the roleplay to progress with peace OOC, or to decide which lore to follow. They can then forward concerns to the leader, who can place a permanent ruling on the situation.

Some players use terms such as "semi-private" or "semi-public" to describe their roleplay. Semi-private tends to mean an application process is needed to become involved, as with private roleplays or group membership. (Most POCs will rarely require you to apply to interact with them, especially when performing diplomacy.) Semi-public, on the other hand does not require applications but allows the roleplayer to know and acknowledge the rules of roleplay and lore will be bent or broken.

Lastly, in the logical consideration of the labels we're using here, it's good manners to not block off a clearly public area on the overworld for a private event. Like a popular tavern, or in the middle of a city. A citadel or player owned home or some actually remote pocket of the overworld is more appropriate...[sic]


(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:20:11 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:51:13 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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RiDaku said:
...[sic]If you do need to use a public area, you can hop to another world. You may get a few strange looks and rude people, but trolls are on every world anyways.


The definition of a Sandbox Roleplay, listed on the Guide-thread is as follows:

RiDaku said:
Sandbox

Sandboxes are the fun little worlds we build where we lack the resources to try otherwise.

Ever wonder what Gielinor might look like in year 2014 of the Seventh Age? Or Year 1 of the First Age? Ever wonder what something outside the Runescape Universe would be like?

In a Sandbox, RuneScape is your clay and sand to build and craft an elaborate world of your own design. For everything from "What if..." scenarios to helping implement a piece of story you plan to work on writing outside of Runescape, Sandbox roleplays have vast potential.

Jagex Rules state you can roleplay mostly anything, but for creativity's sake you should really avoid unoriginal crossovers with other pre-established universes. If you can make it fun, then nobody will stop you...but few people will be interested in RS-Meets-Naruto.

However it is against the rules to have any roleplay related to real world politics, religion and all of that real stuff regardless of if it is a sandbox or not. Few things cause conflict like real religion and politics. It's a can of worms and it doesn't belong here.

Lastly, in the logical consideration of the labels we're using here, it's good manners to not block off a clearly public area on the overworld for a sandbox event. Like a popular tavern, or in the middle of a city. A citadel or player owned home or some actually remote pocket of the overworld is more appropriate. If you do need to use a public area, you can hop worlds for the event. You may get some strange looks from people, but there are trolls on every world anyways...[sic]


(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:21:45 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 01:43:49 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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RiDaku said:
...[sic] All in all, it's just a spectrum. With public, you can expect close adherence to usual canon. With private, you can expect to encounter interesting and neat custom content that makes sense. With sandbox, you may end up on Azeroth or something crazy like that.


While there is some similar terminology used in each definition, taken from the universal understanding players have shared with one another in the community, the definition used in A Quick-Intro is not:

RiDaku said:
...[sic] entirely comprised of content that I already have on my thread.


As the creator of the “In-Game Roleplaying Guide & Help thread” expressed concerns of it being.

A notable key difference in each thread, is the order the threads have prioritized their information. As mentioned above, the Guide-thread places the spheres of roleplay on the 2nd page, giving greater priority to the way it presents how the reader should roleplay, based on the understanding of roleplay presented in the Guide-thread. Meanwhile, the Quick-Intro thread places its list of the types of roleplay as the third, and fourth posts on its first and only page. Despite the overlapping terms, the Quick-Intro simply introduces the reader to the universal terminologies they may come across, while the Guide aims to define them to its level of understanding.

This brings me to the next area of similarity, being the symbols used in roleplay as the community understands them. Both threads use the following symbols as listed and defined on each thread; Speech, Actions, Whispering, Yelling, Thoughts, Emphasis, Telepathy, Foreign Language, Out-Of-Character chat.

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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23-Jul-2018 01:25:58 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:55:20 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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The symbols listed in the aforementioned post are universal symbols understood by role-players and learned in-game, and in groups, which were later added to the previous incarnations of the "n-Game Roleplaying Guide & Help" thread, to keep an organized list of the symbols. While both threads list the same symbols, the similarities end in their definitions.

The Quick-Intro thread places the name term, and the symbol for it, whereas the Guide thread proceeds to further explain and define the terminology with their corresponding symbols, and provide an example of their use. Additionally, the Guide thread has two more symbols that the Quick-Intro lacks, identified as Commorb and Mental Persuasion. As these are universal symbols in roleplay used on many group threads, and in-game itself, there is no need to remove them from either thread, as they both serve their intended function whilst differing in the type of thread they are presented in. The Guide thread elaborating and expanding further from the nature of aiming to guide the reader, while the Quick-Intro thread lists them in a straightforward and clear manner.

The last area of similarity comes in the form of the post titled “Tips for in-game roleplaying” on the Quick-Intro thread, and the post titled “The Rules” on the Guide thread.

In Quick-Intro, the following list is presented: RunScape Rules Apply, Language, Appropriate Topics, Naming and Shaming, Trolling and Spamming.

The format they are presented in list them as general pointers and suggestions for the reader to consider when roleplaying in-game. The Guide-thread lists the following as specific rules a roleplayer should follow:

Don'ts: Godmodding/God mode'ing, Being "overpowered", Lorebreaking, Metagaming, Extensive Powerplaying, Play the World Guardian.

Do's: Cooperation, be Courteous, Just be a nice person. Take action against rule breakers.

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:28:36 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 01:48:12 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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Once more, the Quick-Intro thread simply lists the above information as tips, whereas the Guide thread lists them as definitive rules. Despite some overlap in terminologies that, again, many roleplayers practice, there is no need at this time to change the content of either thread in regards to the presented information.

Now, with the similarities ended, the following posts will reflect the differences as I see them, and then my feedback regarding both threads and overall opinion.

To begin, as mentioned before, there is a major difference in the tone of writing that each thread presents their information. Both tones of the thread are evident within their introduction posts; The Quick-Intro thread presents a more straightforward and neutral tone, using phrasing such as the following:

CrocoNuts said:


What will follow is a small one page introduction on how to get involved and will provide you with some generic information about in-game roleplay.


The Guide-thread, however, uses an aforementioned satirical tone using phrasing such as:

RiDaku said:


The official world for what this thread represents is World 42, but of course RolePlay can happen anywhere! Your ability to get it done without interruptions isn't guaranteed, though, off-world.


The major differences in tone, can be seen in the way the Quick-Intro thread presents its "Tips for in-game roleplaying" and the way the Guide-thread presents it's "Do's". The Quick-Intro thread presents its tips in an encouraging tone:

CrocoNuts said:


Here are just a few guidelines that we'd like to reminder players to try and follow, out of respect for themselves and other players; See these as tips to keep things fun for yourself.


(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:31:15 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:12:24 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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Whereas the Guide-thread presents its "Do's" in less of an advisory, and encouraging manner, and in a more blatantly curt form:

RiDaku said:


Just be a nice person: Really. Have some chill.


I do not doubt the intention of the thread creator as aiming to be amicable and lighthearted, however there are some things that may need to be considered rewritten, such as the quote mentioned above, as they can be perceived as being presented as ridiculing the reader, that may be a potentially new roleplayer looking to join the communtiy.

An example of a potentially ridiculing form of phrasing used in both threads is the use of the term "Common Sense" in the following posts:

CrocoNuts said:


• Appropriate Topics
Use a bit of common sense, and keep topics appropriate for ages for our community's language at around 13. People that want to do things that go beyond this often agree upon this in private or within their group.


RiDaku said:


Be Courteous: Mostly common sense, but you’d be surprised how many people are not courteous...[sic]


While both are intended to be presented in an informative manner, it is easy to mistake the tone as being one of ridicule, at least in my view, and is not something that should be reflected in community stickies.

There is feedback I have for the entirety of both threads, but as they are in a much larger scope than the criteria of the questions presented by the Forum Moderator team, I will refrain from posting them here, and provide the feedback elsewhere.

(Continued)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:32:46 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:16:12 by Eridyn

Eridyn

Eridyn

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In summation, while there is some overlapping terminology and similarities in each thread given their shared topic of information, being In-Game Roleplaying, there is enough differentiation for each thread to keep the information they present. Despite the aforementioned overlaps and similarities, neither thread directly takes the content of the other and plagiarizes it, as both are presenting terms that have existed long before either thread did.

Additionally, I find that there is no need for either thread to be un-stickied, or deleted. I would argue that the threads have the potential to work in tandem with one another, despite the fact there appears to be some discrepancies with the information presented by the Guide-thread as being "outdated." Both threads have the capacity to work in tandem with one another, if, there is willing cooperation and consensus from the community members that take interest and are invested in the content of both threads.

There is already an existing example of the threads working in tandem with the suggestion placed by the "A Quick Intro to RS Roleplay" thread that is encouraging the reader, or potential new roleplayer to read the "In-Game Roleplay Help & Guide" if they require broader definitions or understanding of roleplay that is not presented in the Quick-Intro thread. This example can be seen below:

CrocoNuts said:


This is but a small introduction, a welcome, to RSRP. For more in-depth information on how to roleplay on RuneScape, go visit the In-Game RolePlay Guide & Help. This is a much more elaborate thread with more information, examples and other tools to help smoothen your RuneScape roleplay experience.


(End)
@Eriddyn
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Lorehound
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Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
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23-Jul-2018 01:32:59 - Last edited on 23-Jul-2018 02:40:47 by Eridyn

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