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~Pick-a-Pocket Pickpocket~

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AááCole
Nov Member 2003

AááCole

Posts: 13,859Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Introduction

Right now I feel that traditional pickpocketing is very outdated. At level 99 Thieving, success rates at the likes of Dwarven Traders is certainly no higher than 10%, and given the low value rewards and dire XP rates, as well as high user input, there is simply no reason to partake in such activities over other, more rewarding and/or more AFK activities.

Whilst I feel the following suggestion would be ideal for replacing traditional pickpocketing, I can also see merit in it being a "Big Game Hunter for Thieving" style of activity instead.

The Suggestion

When you go to pickpocket an NPC, an interface appears of the NPC.

On this NPC, there will be various loot spots, with their own chances of success, and varying value of rewards. When you click on one of these loot spots, your avatar will then attempt to pickpocket from that location of the NPC. This could have a time bar similar to how the chests in the VIP portal work. If successful, you will have taken an item from that NPC, and that NPC becomes un-thievable for n number of minutes.


Examples

Let's use the typical Man / Woman as an example. As they are low level, they will only have two loot spots - the left pocket and right pocket. These pockets will contain the same value loot and same chance of success, but this chance of success increases with player level.

For a mid-tier example, say Desert Bandits, these will have 3-4 loot spots with varying chances of success, and varying loot sizes. For example, looting a low value item from an open pocket will be easier than looting from a tied side pouch which may contain higher value loot.


~A~

01-Jun-2021 20:40:12

AááCole
Nov Member 2003

AááCole

Posts: 13,859Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Let's take the Dwarven Traders as another example. Now we're at the top tiers of thieving. These guys will have 5-6 loot spots available at a time, but randomly selected from a longer list - left/right pockets, toolbelt, necklace, earings, stone spirit pouch, seed pouch, back pocket, inside pocket, and so on. If you go for the stone spirit pouch, you'll have relatively good odds at success, but receive a relatively low pay out in stone spirits. However, should you go for the inside pocket, you could get your hands on a high level clue, or business contracts that can be traded to other factions for large amounts of stone spirits / ores / bars.

And with these high risk - high reward loot spots, perhaps should come the possibility of obtaining a new hero item geared towards Thieving. Perhaps a cloak of some kind which goes into the cape slot would probably be the most fitting for the Thieving skill, but if this were the case it'd need to retain the skillcape perks should that be already unlocked.


Advantages

> New mechanisms will bring renewed interest in such activities;

> Pickpocketing already requires high user input, this change would simply make it more interesting and more rewarding.

> There are not many pickpocketable NPCs in the game. A rework like this wouldn't require much overhauling compared to the likes of the Mining and Smithing rework, but could get as popular given the unique mechanisms.

Disadvantages

> It requires players to actually engage with the content. Personally I see this as a positive, but given the direction RS is going, it seems AFK activities are increasingly popular.


Concluding Statement

This is all I have to say on this matter right now. If you have any further ideas, such as how thieving boosts and outfits should interact with such a change, please feel free to add them to the discussion.


~A~

01-Jun-2021 20:41:06

Kopaka
Jan Member 2021

Kopaka

Posts: 3,526Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It requires players to actually engage with the content. Personally I see this as a positive, but given the direction RS is going, it seems AFK activities are increasingly popular.

This is a major point of consideration. Though Big Game Hunter does seem to indicate some degree of willingness to do more hands-on activities.

If this was a replacement for all pickpocketing, that would be a pretty significant impact on prifddinas. Not sure if cases like that would be better left alone. Although on that note, the M&S rework did not choose to spare prif, and it did indeed cause an enormous shift away from trah being a busy VoS.

I think it sounds interesting for most cases.

It would definitely require a change in the elite outfit and in the monolith power Sticky Fingers.



I love the care you took in making this thread. It's beautiful.

01-Jun-2021 21:16:13 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2021 21:19:08 by Kopaka

AááCole
Nov Member 2003

AááCole

Posts: 13,859Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I do feel that because pickpocketing already requires high user input for the most part, that a change like this would be in the same sort of spirit. I feel like if safecracking were to be changed into this sort of method, there'd certainly be resistance towards the idea. However, it's more that traditional pickpocketing is very outdated now, and it's never felt pleasant to undertake given the jarring mechanisms it currently has.

I have no experience of thieving in Prif due to me not having the requirements, but I have noticed in places like Menaphos and The Arc that pickpocketing has a similar mechanism to fishing, except that when you fail you will stop attempting the pickpocket. Whilst this has been an upgrade from traditional methods, it's still rather lacklustre in my opinion. Having to wait long periods because everyone is wise to your antics is an annoying mechanism. What I'm suggesting is that individuals become "empty" of loot and take time to respawn, but others are available to loot - similar to Archaeology caches.

As for changes to the perks, I feel there is more scope for ideas with this suggested mechanism than there is with the current mechanism. Just to name a few:

> Increased chance of finding high value loot spots;

> Increased chance of finding high success rate loot spots;

> Increased success rates across all loot spots;

> Increased value of all loot spots;

> Decreased time to loot;

> Decreased respawn time of loot in NPC.

I'm sure there'll be plenty more ideas in the community.


~A~

01-Jun-2021 22:07:15

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 7,607Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I wouldn't actually say the main issue of pickpocketing lies in the mechanic itself, but rather in the asinine failure rates you have unless you can significantly outlevel said target. That actually is an issue for a lot of old content - such as it isn't viable to cut anything higher levelled than an acadia (or even teak before that tree existed) with classical woodcutting or mining anything higher levelled than iron ore before Jagex bothered reworking the whole mining system.

I just know it for sure in OS, that master farmers (a thieving target for level 30 something) can only stolen from with a 100 % chance upon reaching level 95 and having the ardougne 3 tasks completed (which give you a passive 10 % boost to your thieving chance - something you can easily surpass in RS3 with auras, the crystal mask and the elite outfit). That said this mechanic basically makes most targets not viable at all to steal from, unless Jagex had implemented some other kind of mechanic - like auto pickpocketing for a lot of newer things - partially even ones, that were classical one click, one stealing targets like the phoenix as soon as you've completed the hard desert tasks.

I would partially agree with your proposal though. While I certainly wouldn't even closely this thing to be the way how thieving is started it certainly could be applied to a couple of creatures nobody currently would steal from, while keeping and fixing (i.e. you're able to steal with a 100 % chance if you're 10-20 levels higher than the requirements - depending on what passive boosts you're using) the classical mechanic for creatures that are more commonly used even now (men, HAM members, master farmers,...)
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Jun-2021 05:12:51 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2021 05:15:48 by Rikornak

AááCole
Nov Member 2003

AááCole

Posts: 13,859Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
I wouldn't actually say the main issue of pickpocketing lies in the mechanic itself, but rather in the asinine failure rates you have unless you can significantly outlevel said target. That actually is an issue for a lot of old content - such as it isn't viable to cut anything higher levelled than an acadia (or even teak before that tree existed) with classical woodcutting or mining anything higher levelled than iron ore before Jagex bothered reworking the whole mining system.
I completely agree with this statement. I feel that Woodcutting is in as much need for a rework as Mining and Smithing were, but it sounds like big rework projects are low priority for Jagex right now.

The issue with pickpocketing is certainly highlighted when completing these Yak Track's. Come the tasks of pickpocketing over 1000 Paladins or higher, one may end up spending a few hours on this task, even though you're level 99, with several boosts, and Paladins only requiring level 70 Thieving to loot.

Jagex could certainly do a patch job on Thieving and fix this with rebalancing, but given the few parameters in the current mechanics, rebalancing won't be that easy. With a system like that proposed, there'll be more parameters that can be balanced, allowing for more control over how the end performance will turn out.

Another point to note is that it's not just the jarring failures which are a problem, it's that the loot is almost worthless. Why would anyone want to spend 30-60 seconds pickpocketing Dwarven Traders to end up with one coal stone spirit. Aside from the odd high level clue and triskelion pieces, there's nothing worthy of thieving from these guys. So if, simply, pickpocketing success rates were changed, as well as the drop tables, we could risk seeing a devaluation in the skill similar to how Divination has become devalued after the recent changes there.


~A~

02-Jun-2021 09:16:06

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 7,607Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I admittingly must say I am always doing thieving yak tasks in prif - that task just isn't made for the regular pickpocketing mechanic - and lower levelled players even have the rogue at level 32 as an option if they can take the risk of being griefed. But yeah - if you're maxed just go to prif - or use the elite outfit to auto-pickpocketing available if you can't. Arc inhabitants still aren't part despite they actually should be - but yeah - seeing what stuff still has been forgotten 8 yak tracks later...

Dwarven traders sorta are the issue, that most thieving activities just were designed for gaining experience - and for that they were historically insanely good - since they had left-click pickpocketing available, before that became a thing for most other targets and they actually hadn't had as bad failure rates as pickpocket targets in the 70s/80s had - which was a huge relief for me back in the day when I had unlocked them (prif wasn't a thing at that point and I was hugely fed up with PP upon reaching level 90). Of course since then activities had been released, that were more profitable (prif), more convenient (prif) or faster for levelling (safes). But that again isn't an issue of how pickpocketing works, it's more an issue with that loot table - prif elves once again are a good example of how a loot table should look like for the most part. Beef up the loot table and you've got a perfectly viable alternative - needing more attention, but in terms of experience it can more than hold up right now already - not with safes of course - but if the loot is right it doesn't need to - you've got 3 different activities that way at high levels, which each work on their own way.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Jun-2021 10:35:44

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 7,607Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's more the 70s/80s stuff like gnomes, elves, heroes and paladins that really suffer from the pickpocketing mechanics - Knights also perfectly work in OS since you eventually can kill off the failure rate, but sure - not relevant in rs3 by the time you're reaching those levels. That is actually stuff, that couldn't be fixed by just adjusting a couple of parameters - unless you're making slightly worse dwarven traders out of them, which naturally replace one another upon reaching a level milestone - which also would be good enough for progression. Just in a different niche than safes - less xp, more attention, but on the plus side more loot. But yeah - it's up to Jagex to create appealing loot tables for every single of those creatures - they certainly can - Prif Elves again, HAM Members as a great low levelled example or as an OS example Vyres - it just needs to be applied to the stuff that's a decade older than those - since this would give the skill some kind of value beyond levelling it just to have a bigger number. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Jun-2021 10:37:02 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2021 10:43:14 by Rikornak

Kai Okt Il
May Member 2021

Kai Okt Il

Posts: 34Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Loaf of bread from General store: 24gp
Amount to pickpocket from Man/Woman: 3gp

The men and women of Gielenor live in poverty, unable to purchase even the most staple foods such as bread. As the heroes get richer, the poor get poorer. This gap in economic growth has started to leave the backbone of all kingdoms behind. This isn't right! As Emperor of Gielenor, I will make it my mission to resolve this issue with increased minimum wage! People shouldn't have to work full time jobs to barely scrape by in today's society. Let's work together to make Gielenor great again!



Okay, maybe not. But the pickpocket loot system is far behind the inflation of gold over the last 20 years, and it's time for some change. Rewards across the table should be buffed to be more in line of cash rewards from safecracking. Safes are OP compared to other methods of training in terms of loot and xp. A major overhaul may not even be needed for thieving, but a NINJA patch ought to easily fix things. Increase success rate at higher levels and increase base rewards.

Maybe in a future update, they could release a high tier minigame-like content for thieving with engaging concepts for high tier loot.

02-Jun-2021 14:42:52

AááCole
Nov Member 2003

AááCole

Posts: 13,859Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aside from Prif pickpocketing, it seems like the entire Thieving skill can just bypass pickpocketing with other more interesting or more rewarding content. This in itself shows that there is an inherent problem with pickpocketing.

Unfortunately, even with the likes of the Archaeology perk and Master Camouflage outfit, pickpocketing at higher levelled NPCs is extremely jarring as the failure rate is so much higher than the success rate. So whilst updating the rewards would be welcome, it doesn't change the fact that the activity doesn't feel very enjoyable.

But if this can be addressed at the same time as updating the rewards, then yes, the mechanics suggested here could be used for other, niche purposes. We'll see what happens I suppose.


~A~

03-Jun-2021 20:06:35

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