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Comp cape without reaper fix

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Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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As late as todays runescape survey twitch stream, the jmods were struggling to come up with the perfect solution to the future of the comp cape's overall idea, and admitted there might be no solution to make everybody happy.

In the new 2019 video it is again mentioned that jmods now 'dare' make a rework for something where we have many opinions. The rework should arrive March/April according to the video.

So the biggest problem seems to be the reaper title!

My solution:

1. Remove reaper title as a comp req.
2. Nerf the strength bonus of comp cape slightly, keep all its functionallity.
--- Edit: comp cape should have 31 str bonus = hybrid stats of the fight kiln capes.
3. Add a Reaper cape to Deaths shop, that only can be bought and weilded when the player has the reaper title, the cape should be hybrid with 31 str bonus aswell.
4. Make the reaper cape attachable to the comp cape, which then gets better strength bonus than the normal comp cape. --- Edit: At least the current 43 str bonus.
5. If the player looses the reaper title the attachment is taken off the comp cape.
6. Make the comp cape harder to get with new/missing content reqs --- fx: add the Venerated title and 100 % telos kill as comp req, this together with Movran's Challenge and all quest bosses would mean comp still requires a fair amount of bossing experience (soloable).
7. Have seen /Jackscape suggesting Reaper/FB/IFB capes, if jmods choose this way, all capes could be an add-on to the comp cape, with each cape increasing strenght bonus slightly.

With the reaper title problem out of the way, I think the jmods can fix the rest of the picture that makes the future of the comp cape :D

I am a comp cape owner myself, from since 2015 with downtime when raids and solak came out. But I do not think a comp rework will devalue my work getting and keeping the cape.


Plz give any kind of feedback :)

27-Feb-2018 21:39:36 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2019 15:51:32 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Prime Axiom said:
The spirit of the Completionist cape is for players that have completed all significant ingame content. PVM is a large chunk of ingame content, and the most significant aspect of the current state of the game.

That being said, I like your idea. I simply want the names of the capes to more accurately reflect the achievements and skill it takes to get them. Simply make an alternative cape with no combat bonuses called the
Completetrash
cape for people who can't PVM. Once you get the reaper title, you'll get a
I don't suck at PVM anymore token
that you can attach it to your
Completetrash
cape to make it a real
Completionist
Cape. It's basically your idea, but with accurate labelling.


I have comp and MQC myself. And I think it should be quite hard to have comp. I don't even know how long it's gonna take me to get a Solak kill to get comp back, but that's just the way it's supposed to be.

But I'm a runescape veteran and not everyone thinks like me. So this is the solution I think will be fair for most people. They can balance the stats a bit more on the different capes, even the names as you suggest. Overall the way we think about comp cape, has to be more streamlined, I think that is what the jmods are aiming for.

28-Feb-2018 11:17:04

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Hguoh said:
Considering that beating the Fight Kiln at least once is a requirement to obtain the Completionist Cape (even without the Reaper requirement), I fail to see why the cape should not have Kiln cape stats even in the absence of the Reaper requirement.


Because it is hybrid maybe? In the end, the most important thing if this suggestion goes through, is that the reaper cape attachment to comp cape should be a significant increase in strength bonus.

28-Feb-2018 11:19:20 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2018 11:19:43 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Hguoh said:
Lord Kylle said:
Hguoh said:
Considering that beating the Fight Kiln at least once is a requirement to obtain the Completionist Cape (even without the Reaper requirement), I fail to see why the cape should not have Kiln cape stats even in the absence of the Reaper requirement.


Because it is hybrid maybe? In the end, the most important thing if this suggestion goes through, is that the reaper cape attachment to comp cape should be a significant increase in strength bonus.


But, again, why? Even if you remove the Reaper requirement, you've stilled demonstrated that you can earn the Kiln capes and thus their stats (the spirit cape needs to be added to the comp cape, because no requirement necessitates you obtain the spirit cape).

If a distinction must be made, have it be cosmetic just like how trim comp has higher reqs than normal comp but is only a cosmetic difference.


I agree that you have earned the stats that the kiln capes have.

But have you earned it on a hybrid cape, meaning all the capes combined?
And have you earned it on the comp cape with all the other functions and stats aswell?

I would say maybe, because it happens fx with the spirit cape.

My point is, the best statted cape, should require reaper title, so if the normal comp cape should have 31 str bonus as hybrid, then the reaper cape attachment should get comp cape back up to its current 43 str bonus or higher.

And well forgot Max cape has 26 str bonus, and comp should have more, so yeah 31 str bonus might be just fine :)

28-Feb-2018 14:33:12

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Fair points.

I do think reaper title should have some more reward than just cosmetic, even more because that title is the reason comp cape might become easier to get = more common.

If it's just for something cosmetic I don't care at all, then the cosmetic difference being trim when you get that cape would be enough.

So yeah our difference in opinion is mainly if comp without reaper title should earn you the best str bonus on cape in game, even with lower str bonus comp cape would still be the most useful cape in game you wear all the time, just with a potential upgrade from getting reaper title.

28-Feb-2018 16:56:54

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Mitchypooo said:
People don't seem to understand that comp cape was not intended for skillers it was intended for people capable of doing high end content, you want the cape learn how to boss.


Well I agree.

So we either do some kind of compromise, or tell the jmods there is no problem and that they should tell people to git gud :)
The reason the jmods are taking this up now on live streams, is that they say they wanna create even harder bosses in time, targeted at the top 5 % pvm'ers in game, and then comp would only really be for the top 5 % pvm'ers in game :)

28-Feb-2018 20:51:48 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2018 20:53:39 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Mitchypooo said:
All they're doing is adding a new team boss, I don't see the big issue, just take the time to learn it
Like everyone else


I don't think compers are complaining about Solak :)

Some compers complain about group bosses ofc, that's another question than just difficulty.

The reason I made this post was because of the future of comp that jmods talked about on the latest twitch stream. :)

What should be added to comp, what should not, should it only be for the people who can do harder bossses than Telos and Solak in the future, and so on.
The jmods said they already considered removing reaper as a comp req, or making 2 tiers of reaper title, or something else. And they admitted they would never be able to make everybody happy.

The easiest thing would by far be to leave it as is, reaper title is comp req.
Though if they really want another direction, this post suggests not devaluing reaper title, should it be moved to only be a trim req :)

Nice to see response to the broader topic of comp and bossing and what comp was meant to mean from the beginning ofc :D

In truth I don't think the jmods meant for comp to be pvm heavy, more like do pretty much all content, but with bossing becoming even more important the latest years, many people that already have comp will say that comp was always meant to be a challenge that requires you to become a high end bosser.

And now they wanna set up a clear line for what comp is, making it easier for them to choose what to put on the comp list, and they actually wanna make more frequent comp reqs than we have seen the last year.

01-Mar-2018 00:53:44

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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I agree on the finding a group problem, and avoiding leeching for comp being a problem :D

But well, AoD can be massed, and Solak can be done duo, so I think most people dread group bosses more than they should.
Raids are still worse in that regard, if it wasn't easy to get a friend to take you today :)

On the long term solution, that I hope they make, they could make changes and a new direction for both comp and trim. A lot will most likely argue that trim should require reaper title no matter what. But removing group bosses as a req for both capes could be a potential solution.

01-Mar-2018 14:44:09

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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B I L L Y said:
I'm up for this I'm comp and I leeched every boss

I'm not a pvmer sorry


You shouldn't be sorry for not being a pvm'er :)
Unless you really wanna get more into bossing.

The question is, should comp be git gud, learn every new challenge however hard it is, or slightly less try hard, still with a lot of content and challenges and grind to do.

Removing group bosses only, removes the leech problem somewhat, but the jmods still feel limited about solo bosses then if they wanna make a boss only 1k people in game can kill, then comp is only for 1k people (dont know current number of active players with comp).

01-Mar-2018 17:52:59 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2018 17:53:18 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Nex is Life said:
Lord Kylle said:

This already exists, it's called max cape. If you're a skiller... that's what you get.

How is this req even a problem. Literally every boss except telos rax qbd is leechable. All the people in this thread insist the entire PvM community is so toxic that's why they can't get a single kill in every boss, the truth is they can't beat the solo bosses.
Join pvming fc ask for a team or wait for one, say you're a learner or say need 1 kill for comp and go for one kill. That's it. You don't even have to survive the entire kill in raids. I don't know how but the teachers there have endless patience. If you're put off by toxic people, that's the place to go.


Alright there might be a few whiners who have posted here, but what you're saying here has not much to do with why I created this thread :)

Those that say the pvm community is toxic are mostly wrong yes, there are places to go for help, and their experience with some toxic guy doesn't make it true for all of rs.

As I said earlier, I have comp and mqc myself, and I like the challenge, comp should be hard to get, as my point 6. was about, in my first post.

Now I made this thread because the jmods said they were already looking at the future of comp especially, and they mentioned looking at the reaper title, so this posts suggests that in case they go through with that, then they should not make reaper title worth nothing.

If you haven't killed any kind of hard boss, then you shouldn't have comp, then you should be satisfied with max, I agree.

But the jmods ask, if they make a boss only like 1k people can kill, because it is really tough, meant for the best, hard to learn to kill, should only 1k people have comp then?


In response to my thread, what most people here want is not to have reaper removed as comp req, but instead group bosses removed as a comp req.

I'd still like to hear more opinions :D

03-Mar-2018 19:58:32 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2018 20:00:23 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Nex is Life said:

I was more ranting in general about the people who cry about reaper title.


Fair enough.

Maybe as you know, that it's wrong by most people to say the pvm community is toxic, then thinking like that - maybe you're wrong about many ranting about reaper title being comp req?

I have heard many say that it's hard to get all group bosses done, and that comp is quite the challenge because of bossing mainly. But I haven't heard many say it's unfair that comp is hard, and I haven't heard many say that reaper title as comp req should be removed.

So regarding whether even harder bosses should make the jmods reconsider reaper title as a comp req.
We should really ask as the first question, do we mind, both as those who already have comp, and those going for it, if comp becomes more exclusive, or if comp becomes slightly less exclusive, as long as new challenges are being added following a new standard the jmods might agree on? :)

03-Mar-2018 20:46:49 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2018 20:52:52 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Nex is Life said:

Solak, that's ifs and maybes and assuming content released by Jagex isn't a huge, underwhelming, overhyped disappointment. I expect, like all other bosses ever, Solak to be reasonable for someone without a lot of PvM experience to get a kill in, once mechanics have been worked out and strategies developed.
If Jagex really are going to make a boss that has every member team of experienced PvMers pushed to their limits, which I highly doubt, then... GG. You shouldn't be a completionist unless you do it.
If Jagex do cave in about reaper title, which they probably would, then I would hope as a bare minimum that all solo bosses including 100% enrage telos are still needed (someone suggested morvran's challenge being expanded) and that there are at least some other requirements involving existing group bosses rather than cutting them out completely of comp. Yakamaru II track is a good one.


That's more like the feedback I want :D

I agree on Solak, I don't think Solak is gonna be more of a problem than other bosses, has duo mode aswell.

I 100 % agree on the expanded Movran challenge, or a new challenge from someone else, to take people around to other bosses, like gwd2 + telos and maybe a few others.
Would be a great way to keep comp difficulty up if they remove reaper title as a req.

03-Mar-2018 22:38:16

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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That would certainly seem fair (easy for me as a comper to say) :D

What I have been deep sea fishing for in this thread are the opinions between "git gud, not hard to get group boss team", and "comp used to be different, comp should be soloable".

And I've seen some fair ideas. As the jmods said, the solution to the future of comp, will never satisfy everyone.

And I'm asking myself and other compers, would our opinion be 100 % the same, if I was the one who suddenly could not keep up with comp reqs anymore because of boss difficulty, increasing challenges or something. Even though we agree comp cape is about completing everything, comp already is a mixture of completing everything with some content, so we should keep it a nuanced picture, no matter if we look at making new reqs for comp, removing reqs, or setting new standards.

So comp should never be hit by easy scape, but that shouldn't keep the jmods from looking at some point of balance and making some clear in house standards for what they add as new comp reqs, and what they don't. :)

04-Mar-2018 04:17:15 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 04:20:56 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Kcin said:
Lord Kylle said:
Even though we agree comp cape is about completing everything,


Comp hasn't ever been about completing everything, thats the exact reason why Trim comp exists, and the fact that there are quite a few things on the mqc that aren't required on the comp cape. So can we stop saying comp cape is/has always been completing everything. It has always been a pick and choose and I don't see a problem with removing group bosses from comp cape.


And just after that, I wrote that it has always been a mixture, meaning it isn't really everything we complete, and yes that makes room for MQC and trim comp.
So the comp cape is about completing most of the game, but not everything.

Yes your leeching point is one of the reasons jmods want to find a balance, they don't wanna make a comp req that more than 50 % just leech, then it doesn't really matter. Ofc we prefer choosing freely what content we play in runescape, comp cape will always force us to try content we like less, that won't change.

Removing group bosses from comp req would remove most leeching, it's just quite a big step to take, I just hope some jmod reads this thread so they might better decide, and not do something too many dislike.

04-Mar-2018 12:46:34 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 12:47:22 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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ToG Baam said:
Can't you just have a base cape that can be claimed for free and upgraded eventually to a master cape in different areas of game? Then you have to own all master capes to get comp and all trimmed master capes for trimmed comp

So for example a cape that's at first give no stats, but then as you kill more bosses the cape gains stats/combat perks eventually into a master combat cape (like a guaranteed add on as drop on first kill of boss or something) and would have the best combat stats for cape slot.

Then along the same line you could have master cape for skilling (current max cape minus combat skills). Which you can put skilling cape perks into.

Master minigames cape, gives advantages in minigames

Master quest cape, already here, but could maybe give the player extra lore from npc's

Master d&d cape... dunno what perk this would have

Maybe even a title go with each cape (reaper, skiller specialist, pro gamer, easily distracted whatever)

Then after you've got all of those master capes, you are eligible for the completionist cape

Trimmed version of master capes could include ifb for cb, all 120's for skills etc, and after you get all the trimmed master capes you can be awarded a trimmed completionist cape.

This will give due meaning to completion as you have to be a master at all aspects to be a completionist. The trim would demonstrate you have gone above and beyond just completion.


This is quite a different solution, than most of the topic going on here.

It takes cape-scape in a new direction, while still making comp cape and trim comp cape the top capes of them all.

Now it might have to be simplified quite a bit if the jmods are gonna put time and effort into it, maybe the d&d and minigame capes are a bit too complicated.
What this solves is that you can have a cape for your prefered playtype, and we don't have to remove reaper as a comp req.

07-Mar-2018 13:29:21

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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EllingerMain said:
I found the survey stream the OP mentioned and had no idea there was actually an in-depth 4 min. discussion regarding "The Reaper" title being removed as a comp cape req. I assumed it was just an idea the OP came up with to remove the title, having no context that the stream actually discussed the title itself.

Now that I have bridged the two together and my confusion has cleared up, I apologize for my blunt previous posting. However, I am still confused as to why (after all this time) Jagex is just now wanting to address this problem again out of the blue?


Hey Ellinger, glad you found the stream I mentioned :D

Now I didn't make this post to get reaper removed as a comp req.
I made this post to give a better solution in case the jmods would go through with removing some boss reqs from comp anyways.

And then I asked for other ideas, better solutions, how to rework comp as a whole if needed.

I don't think it will ever be a good day when they touch the way comp works, since it has been here for so long now.
I think Reaper title is a good challenge and not impossible with the help from players and guides that are available. And I will gladly take up the challenge of future bosses, no matter if I'm gonna stop after 1 kill or keep killing it for fun and loot :D

But I'm not of the mind, that I will hate anyone that gets comp cape more easily than me. If comp has to be changed a bit, to make it easier for the jmods with future updates and what they can add to it, then we must look at it, it being my idea or moving group bosses to trim or something else entirely. Might include more than just the bossing aspect. :)

20-Mar-2018 23:51:45

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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To @Kcin and @Nex is Life

You must both by now have won and lost your arguments at least 50 times?

I don't know why you both have to try so hard to be right, or why you seem to feel offended by the other person?
You have kept the tone fair, I give you that, and I get you want to win using arguments, and that you are using your arguments against each other.
But you should take your long talk somewhere else, even though it is on topic, it has become off topic, it adds nothing to this thread anymore.

So plz, stop.
Add each other in game or have a talk about this on discord. You might even end up having fun doing a boss together. :)

21-Mar-2018 00:12:03

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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I'm just linking the picture with the design for reaper and final boss capes by JackScape:

https://i.redd.it/zslxm6rhpf111.png

This does work quite well with my initial suggestion.

Two outcomes here if Jagex go forward with this idea:

1) Reaper and Final Boss capes will be attachable to comp cape, each giving it better stats

2) Reaper and Final Boss capes just have plain better stats than comp cape

I personally prefer option 1), so to keep all the effects and skillcape perks of comp cape while bossing.

Both option 1) and 2) include removing reaper title from comp cape.
As I said from the start, if reaper is removed from comp, at least add solo bosses to comp and more stuff from recent updates that ought to be there. :)

02-Jun-2018 13:28:22

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Nex is Life said:
Lord Kylle said:
TTwo outcomes here if Jagex go forward with this idea:
1) Reaper and Final Boss capes will be attachable to comp cape, each giving it better stats
2) Reaper and Final Boss capes just have plain better stats than comp cape

I personally prefer option 1), so to keep all the effects and skillcape perks of comp cape while bossing.

Both option 1) and 2) include removing reaper title from comp cape.
As I said from the start, if reaper is removed from comp, at least add solo bosses to comp and more stuff from recent updates that ought to be there. :)
But what is the point here?

If you're reducing the stats on comp cape for people who only do skilling requirements then what is the difference between that, and... dare I say it... a Max cape?


Difference from max cape:

1) The armour og lifepoint bonus, I think that's not unfair, since some bossing (solo), will still be required.

2) The teleports, (farm spot, skeletal wyvern), those things that the skillers ask for more than the better combat stats.

3) Combined cape effect, ardy cloak, spirit cape, nice to have, again sought by skillers.

03-Jun-2018 23:25:28

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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Leigha523 said:
Let's stay on topic, please.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, let's just keep it nice.


Thx Leigha :)

Without doubt a topic that matters a lot to many who have reached the end game in RS :)
But a few people in here keep repeating the same arguments, it's not like people don't know the positions of the community.

All just started with me pointing out that reaper shouldn't be devalued no matter what happens.
I still think we have 3 likely scenarios if the jmods think it's time to update comp/trim:

1) Noting happens to comp and trim when it comes to current reqs, but more stuff is added and standards are updated.

2) Group bosses will be moved from comp req to trim req, standards are updated.

3) A big mix up of how the comp and trim capes work req wise. A whole new list of what criteria makes any piece of content go on comp or trim cape. Many new reqs, and some moved from comp to trim, some moved from trim to comp.

08-Jun-2018 00:52:49 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2018 00:54:58 by Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

Lord Kylle

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There are so many suggestions out there now :D

I like Mod Jack mentioning that we could remove extra cape features from being comp only, and make it addons to any capes, or at least skillcapes+max+comp+ any new cape (if a reaper and/or skilling cape is added)

Spirit cape:
- Dungeoneering reward, now with an extra buy option to add the effect to a cape you bring to the shop.
Ava's device:
- We could use Shattered Worlds as a place to use anima to unlock ava's device as an addon to a cape you bring to the shop. Or have Ava herself take payment to add it to a cape.
Ardougne cloak teleports and thieving effect:
- Well the cloak is a bit about thieving, so why not use the thieving guild shop, have a buy option to add the cape effect to a cape you bring to the shop.
Skeletal horror teleport:
- Should stay comp cape tele, but also put it on MQC
Restore summon points daily:
- Well put it on comp and maybe reaper cape if that gets added
Life bonus on cape:
- Make a buy option from ports, where you can pay materials to add reefwalker cape to a cape you bring to ports --- maybe only an option for the best capes

24-Jan-2019 15:42:55 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2019 15:45:56 by Lord Kylle

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