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Which forum rule v9

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Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Which rules take precedence in forums, the Code of Conduct, or the Terms & Conditions?


I'm still waiting for an official response from Jagex regarding this question.



P.S. I expect now that everyone got their derailing, accusations, and spamming out in the last thread, you will all stick to the thread topic, which is specifically the question asked above.

Thanks.
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12-Feb-2019 16:13:24

Nexus Origin

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Interesting.

I think you're the only one so far who has thought the Code of Conduct takes precedence in the forums. Everyone else who responded seems to be under the impression that the Terms & Conditions take precedence.
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12-Feb-2019 16:37:55

Nexus Origin

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Mod Poerkie said:
It's not up to me to officially state which one, if one takes precedence. So it's very unlikely you will get an answer to your question.
Okay, so, who can officially answer the question of which one takes precedence?

Mod Poerkie said:
Both apply and you should adhere to both, that is the most important.
Oh. Well that's... confusing. How can I adhere to both? They have contradictory rules.



The Terms & Conditions states that user content:
must not include hyperlinks or connections to third party websites;


While the Code of Conduct states:
If you post links or images make sure they are safe for your fellow forumers.



How can both of those apply at the same time?

One of them must take precedence over the other.
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12-Feb-2019 17:10:04

Nexus Origin

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Perhaps you should read Porkie's response in this thread Aeroxmaster.

He's clearly stated that he cannot officially answer the question, but has stated that both the T&C and the CoC apply. However, as you can see in my post above, this cannot be true, as they are contradictory. One of them must take precedence. They cannot both apply if they have contradictory rules.
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12-Feb-2019 19:14:34

Nexus Origin

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Dude, as long as you're not going to be making accusations, or derailing the thread, then I welcome your input on the topic.

If you wish to try and explain how both the T&C and the CoC can apply at the same time, while having contradictory rules, by all means, I welcome it.


Aeroxmaster said:
This was definitely addressed already though, just not by JMod forum post here recently.
Which JMod addressed it? It wasn't Poerkie, as he literally said: Mod Poerkie said:
It's not up to me to officially state which one, if one takes precedence. So it's very unlikely you will get an answer to your question.
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12-Feb-2019 19:35:52

Nexus Origin

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2_Tron said:
The example about hyperlinks and Terms & Conditions I more see as players posting links in RuneScape’s Public chat persuading players to leave RuneScape and go to scamming websites, streams, gold-farming places.

The example about hyperlinks and the Code of Conduct I more see them as players posting links to places alike discord channels and other social places on the Internet.

So both are about hyperlinks but one isn’t the other unless one can make a connection to both situations in a report and Jagex can verify this during an investigation. The outcome will determine which set of rules will be applied to to that specific situation.
You're jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.

Nowhere in the T&C nor the CoC, does it specify which links are permitted or which links are not permitted, other than the CoC stating that the links need to be safe.

The Rules of RuneScape give a bit more detail on links, although, it does specifically state:
"no links to any sites may be advertised in-game or in the Forums"


However, that isn't actually applicable to the forums, as the Code of Conduct specifies that the CoC takes precedence over the Rules of RuneScape:
"where a forum rule conflicts a RuneScape rule the forum rule is the boss"


We do have a definitive answer as to which takes precedence, the Code of Conduct over the Rules of RuneScape, however, we don't have that definitive answer in regards to the T&C and the CoC.
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13-Feb-2019 00:07:40

Nexus Origin

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2_Tron said:
** You're jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. **

Evidence of both could be found everywhere In RuneScape as well as in The RSOF, even signature links have to be safe and regulary checked.
I do not know why you rejected my examples because as for RuneScape I've reported many in the F2P-Worlds at teleport spots.
They are unsubstantiated conclusions because there is nothing in the T&C or the CoC that would substantiate a new user to come to those conclusions.

As a new user, there needs to be some clarity in the rules about it. A new user isn't going to be hunting down examples in the forums and in the game trying to come to a conclusion about the rules.

2_Tron said:
By the nature of your thinking and reasoning Jagex could have easily banned you or me permanently off The RSOF so yours voice never to be heard again ever. Is that what you are after?
What the? I don't even... what? O_o
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13-Feb-2019 14:40:53

Nexus Origin

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Mexk said:
Aqua Star said:
Mexk said:
Out of genuine curiosity, what are you seeking to accomplish here?

What will either answer enable you to conclude?


I would have thought that was obvious.


Please enlighten me.
Read through the thread Mexk. lol.

There are clearly issues with the T&C and the CoC. Not knowing which one takes precedence causes more issues. They clearly can't both be applied at the same time, as Poerkie stated, since they have contradictory rules.

When it comes to the Code of Conduct and the Rules of RuneScape, the Code of Conduct clearly states that if there is a conflict between the two, the Code of Conduct applies.

This is not apparent with the T&C and the CoC, which is why I'm asking.
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13-Feb-2019 18:13:39 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2019 18:13:58 by Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Mexk said:
considering how moderation here is, and always has been, conducted in accordance with the Code of Conduct exclusively written for the RuneScape forums, surely that should be sufficient?
Is that what you would tell a new forum user when they are asking about the rules? New users aren't aware of how the forums have always been moderated. They're new. They need a set of rules that they can read, understand, and adhere to.


Mexk said:
You must comply with the current version of any rules, guidelines, codes of conduct or instructions specified in any Jagex Product including our game rules, the current version of which is linked to here. The applicable game rules are expressly incorporated into these terms and conditions. Any use of a Jagex Product not in accordance with the game rules exceeds the scope of the license granted by these terms and conditions and is prohibited.
Yes,I understand that portion of the T&C, however, if there is a contradiction between the T&C and the CoC, which takes precedence? It's the same question I've been asking over and over.

This is addressed in the CoC in relation to the Rules of RuneScape, but it is not addressed in relation to the CoC and the T&C.
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13-Feb-2019 20:21:45

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Aeroxmaster said:
@Mexk - the problem with OP is really literalism imo, failing to take the time to read and appreciate the spirit behind things as a whole (and a little bit of wilful ignorance at times). It is a common theme that has been presented throughout the previous thread and this one.
Considering the T&C is a legal contract, it has to be taken literally.

There is no such thing as "spirit of the law" and no legal proceedings would ever rule against literal law in favor of "spirit of the law".
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13-Feb-2019 20:25:39

Nexus Origin

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Okay, so what you're saying is that if there is a contradiction between the T&C and the CoC, the CoC takes precedence, even though it isn't explicitly stated (as it is in CoC regarding the RoR)?
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13-Feb-2019 21:24:24

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Mexk said:
I am not sure if we read the above in different ways, but it seems pretty clear to me that according to the ToC, you ought to obey the specific game rules, or, in this
Okay, so what you're saying is that if there is a contradiction between the T&C and the CoC, the CoC takes precedence, even though it isn't explicitly stated (as it is in CoC regarding the RoR)?
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13-Feb-2019 21:25:07

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Okay.

I find it odd that you're the only FMod who feels the CoC takes precedence over the T&C. Perhaps you could raise that issue with the rest of the team, so that everyone understands and is on the same page about it.

Thanks Mexk.

I think we have come to an understanding on this specific issue, unless some other FMod or JMod would like to interject on the topic.
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13-Feb-2019 21:35:57

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Ugh. So now we're back to not knowing which one takes precedence. lol.

Okay, so, basically, the T&C takes precedence, however, because it states that you must adhere to the CoC, the rules in the CoC take precedence over the rules in the T&C if there is a conflict between the two?

And if there is no rule in the CoC/RoR, then the T&C rules take precedence?
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13-Feb-2019 21:45:43

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I'm not interested in what Jagex can or can't do. I'm interested in only the rules, as they are stated.

If there is no rule in the CoC or the RoR that something is covered under, then the T&C rules apply?


For example, there is no rule in the CoC or the RoR that cover "commercial use", however, the T&C states:
Original message details are unavailable.
User content must not have any commercial purpose

So if someone is using the forums for commercial purposes, even though there is no rule in the CoC or RoR that cover it, the T&C takes precedence, and the rule is applied.

Am I correct in that assumption?
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13-Feb-2019 21:59:09

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2_Tron said:
Nexus Origin said:
...
So if someone is using the forums for commercial purposes, even though there is no rule in the CoC or RoR that cover it, the T&C takes precedence, and the rule is applied.

Am I correct in that assumption?
What do you mean by that? using the forums for commercial purposes?
I dunno... advertising your sock cleaning company? Advertising your bird babysitting business?

Any commercial use.


I believe that if you're advertising your YouTube channel which has been monetized, it would also be classified as "commercial purposes".
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13-Feb-2019 22:08:27 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2019 22:09:39 by Nexus Origin

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Mexk said:
Nexus Origin said:
I'm not interested in what Jagex can or can't do. I'm interested in only the rules, as they are stated.


In this case, that is two sides of the same coin.
No, I'm interested in what users are permitted to do, as outlined by the T&C, the CoC, and the RoR.

What rules users need to follow.

Obviously Jagex can do whatever they like. I'm not contesting that in any way, shape, or form.

I have not once contested that, nor have I questioned it or brought it up at all. Others keep bringing that up, not me. I don't care what Jagex can or can't do. That isn't my focus here.
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13-Feb-2019 22:20:01

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Miu said:
posting a URL is not a hyperlink, as it isn't clickable

the rs forums don't support hyperlinks to websites outside of runescape.com, and as such there is no contradiction
Well, since a URL isn't a link (since it isn't clickable) then the rules in the Code of Conduct which state that links can be posted if they are safe doesn't apply to posting URLs, thus, the Rule in the Rules of RuneScape would apply:
Original message details are unavailable.
Players should refrain from actively advertising in any of our games or forums. This includes advertising any website


Thanks for pointing out that no URLs are permitted to be posted in the forums.
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14-Feb-2019 13:48:26

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