Forums

A New Skill: Druidry

Quick find code: 322-323-510-65929142

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
OSRS needs a new skill, but no proposal thus far has managed to reach the 75% threshold to get passed. So I figured I'd take a whack at it.

---

Skill Description and Overview


Druidry is the art of affecting the natural world by one's own skill and connection to Glielinor itself - or, more specifically, the Anima Mundi, the soul of the world. A player with sufficient skill in Druidry would be able to affect resources around them, based on the level of their other skills.

In some ways, Druidry acts as the inverse of Prayer - Whereas Prayer assists mainly with combat, Druidry is largely for skilling (particularly for gathering skills). Similar to prayer, there would be a point system for Druidry (the points being a player's Anima - connection to the world), but the point system would work in the opposite way - rather than turning on an ability and having it slowly drain one's points, a Druidry ability would require a certain number of points to activate, affecting some change on the surrounding area, and a player's Druidry will slowly recover over time naturally.

A high level in Druidry would allow a player to gather resources more efficiently, train more effectively, and even grant the players the ability to gather some items that they could otherwise not obtain (outside of trade, potentially).

---

An important note on "devaluing"


Some people have expressed their opinion that Druidry might devalue other skill accomplishments. If you feel this way, please read this post where I address that argument. Even if it doesn't change your mind, it will help you to perhaps understand why I disagree. Thanks!

---

08-Jul-2017 06:39:11 - Last edited on 05-Oct-2018 05:56:12 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Example Abilities


Concentrate
: Ore rocks within a certain radius of the player are altered to have a chance at mining a metal nugget, rather than a metal ore (based on the player's mining level). Metal nuggets can be used the same as ores in smelting / other applications, but due to their compressed nature, stack in the player's inventory.

Ore Proliferation
: Additional ore is drawn up from the ground into ore rocks surrounding the player - when mined, these rocks give additional bonus, random ore (up to the tier of ore the rock was additionally), granting some bonus experience. The number of ores mined this way (and thus the additional experience) is based on the player's mining level.

Sustain
: Still living creatures caught in the player's hunter traps are released back into the wild, resulting in a higher spawn rate and more numerous hunter creatures in the area for a duration.

Ocean's Bounty
: For a duration, surrounding fishing spots have a chance at granting double fish at once when a fish is caught, based on a player's fishing level (granting no extra experience for doing so).

Vibrant Sea
: For a duration, surrounding fishing spots are more likely to yield higher level fish, where applicable.

Strengthen Thicket
: Surrounding trees are modified to last longer when chopped, and the player may obtain "Dense [type] Logs" when cutting, which may be fletched into multiple items before disappearing.

Wild / Feral / Primal Strength
: Grants the player an invisible mining and woodcutting boost for a duration.
Wild / Feral / Primal Senses
:Grants the player an invisible hunter and fishing boost for a duration.

---

08-Jul-2017 06:39:35

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Training


Note: please see page 24, posts 3-4 for a fleshed-out training proposal.


I'm going to be honest, this is the area I've had the most trouble with. I'd like the training method to fit these three criteria:

1) Unbuyable (since the skill makes other skills easier, it should itself require time and effort to level, to keep the overall difficulty of the game consistent).

2) Diverse (skills that have you doing different things rather than repeating precisely the same action tend to be more enjoyable).

3) Active (similar to "unbuyable", the skill should require some active participating - not just using the Druidry powers themselves, otherwise it would be too effortless to train).

Some things I've considered:

A "minigame" style training method
: In areas where the Anima Mundi has been damaged or weakened (such as the Poison Wastes, the Wild, some of the foul and dead areas of Morytania, etc.), protecting the remaining Anima in the area could be a method of training (similar in feel to the Wintertodt).

Charms / Talismans
: When skilling, there could be a chance to gain (untradable) items which can then be used for Druidic rituals for experience (similar in feel to bones, for combat / prayer)

Artisan-Style training
: Druids monitoring the balance of the world could direct you to perform tasks that keep nature balanced, similar to the proposed mechanism by which Artisan would have been trained (though obviously, with very different "rewards")

Whether any of these methods, or any combination of these methods, ought to be considered, or something else altogether... Well, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

---

08-Jul-2017 06:39:59 - Last edited on 16-Nov-2018 02:54:21 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Modular Ideas


None of these are vital to the suggestion overall, but are some things that I considered while working on it.

Note: the idea of group skilling has proved to be unpopular, so feel free to ignore it.


Group Skilling
: Given the mechanics of Druidry, it would be possible to allow for a player's Druidry skill to allow other players to benefit as well (perhaps in special areas, analogous to "multicombat zones" in combat?). This could encourage players training together, and a bit more sense of community, rather than skilling being an entirely solo endeavor most of the time.

A Use For Hunter Clothing
: Druids traditionally prefer natural materials - wearing hunter furs could be a way for a player to increase their natural rate of Anima regeneration. In particular, Kyatt, Larupia, and Graahk clothing would be particularly effective for this. The armor would have to be enhanced to be effective for this purpose and would degrade into nothing after a duration.

08-Jul-2017 06:40:19 - Last edited on 16-Nov-2018 02:53:55 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Supporter / Nonsupporter / Skip ratio:

75/18/4 (currently
81% - Passing
)

Statistical significance:

(Assuming a null hypothesis that the proportion of players (s) who would vote for Druidry, s = .75 versus s > .75)

p = .1038

Lots of negative votes recently, and we've no longer got statistical significance, though the poll is still passing, which is nice.

08-Jul-2017 06:40:41 - Last edited on 15-Nov-2018 16:14:19 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I tweeted
Mod Ash
, and got this response:

"Tbh, we've got quite a lot on that's also got high support, and we wouldn't be able to try for a new skill anytime soon. But it does sound like a good theme for a future one."

And:

"If we were doing a new skill, I'd actually want it to be a lot of work. A properly big update. But there does seem to be general interest in getting one, one day, though players may have trouble agreeing on what it should be."

Which is pretty dandy.

08-Jul-2017 06:40:41 - Last edited on 20-Nov-2017 02:46:30 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
[Reserved]

Go ahead and post now.

Any thoughts at all are helpful. Whether you like it or not, I want to hear from you. I want to try to craft this into something that people like, so if it's something you don't like, maybe there's something I can fix about it.

08-Jul-2017 06:42:38

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mr Loser said:
Sorry, maybe I read over it... But how does one raise their skill level?

All in all though I like the idea, think it's an interesting idea.


That's in the "training" section. I have a few proposals there, but I'm really not sure what's best, or if something else entirely would be better.

Either way, I'm glad you like the idea!

And, you too 1Nosferatu.

09-Jul-2017 00:08:09

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Seems like feedback really slowed down on this after the first day. Kind of odd - I wonder if that's just how the OSRS forums work now?

Oh, for the record, I'm perfectly happy to hear negative opinions as well as positive ones. In the unlikely event that this ever got to a vote, those negative opinions would have three times the weight of each positive one, so don't hesitate to speak up here too.

19-Jul-2017 07:44:55

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Feminum, I would actually like some updates for Farming in particular, and considered Herblore as well, but in both cases I didn't really have any particularly great ideas, so I excluded them from the list. I would like a focus on gathering skills for Druidry, but I wouldn't mind some updates to a few refinement skills, if some good ideas were proposed.

---

Neft, I actually disagree that this makes the game easier. I'll explain why briefly:

Which is more difficult? Getting 99 woodcutting, or getting 99 woodcutting AND 99 firemaking? Which is more difficult? Getting 99 fishing, or getting 99 fishing AND 99 cooking?

It is true that Druidry would make some existing skills a little bit easier to train. However, that doesn't mean that it would make the game easier overall - on the contrary, in some sense it would make the game more difficult, by adding in a new skill to be trained.

As for the coal thing: I do understand what you mean (comes down to basic supply-and-demand). I don't know that it will have as big of an impact as you think, though, since I did try to avoid suggesting anything that would bring in resources too highly quickly, and since a huge amount of the resources that are use for skills actually come from PvM rather than actual skilling. Bots are also worth mentioning as a major source of such materials, but I'm not sure bots would bother trying to train Druidry. I think overall the effect would be to allow skillers to compete a bit more with bots and PvM, without affecting prices too much in the end.

As for mining - well, we are dealing with the actual earth itself when mining. It is still nature, even if it's not the living aspect of nature. That's how I thought of it anyway.

---

Thanks to all three of your for the support, by the way.

21-Jul-2017 19:56:57 - Last edited on 21-Jul-2017 19:58:25 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm sorry, but could you please elaborate on what you mean by Summoning having a use of itself, where this doesn't? What use did Summoning have that was only for its own sake? And why don't you think that this does?

I actually went out of my way to make sure that the possible training methods would be "for its own sake" rather than being entirely tied in with other skills, precisely because I agree with what I think it is you're saying there.

Either way though, I appreciate the feedback! Thanks for the response.

23-Jul-2017 18:19:46

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Orcrist9, one thing worth mentioning is that a skill does not necessarily need to rely on items. Some good examples of this are Thieving and Agility. There are supplemental items for Thieving, food, lockpicks, gloves of silence, etc., and some items which can make agility easier as well, but overall those items don't make the skills "buyable" - because the bulk of the skill is still performing some actions.

I, personally, am a big fan of the Pyramid Plunder minigame. It has a bit more variation when training than many other skills (at least you're moving around, and doing more than just running to the bank, as well as dealing with health and whatnot)... It is active, and unbuyable.

Wintertodt is another example I'd give of something which is active, with at least some variation, and though Firemaking as a whole is buyable, Wintertodt isn't.

Now, obviously I'm not suggesting by any means that the training method for Druidry ought to be a copy of Pyramid Plunder, or Wintertodt, or any other existing piece of content... I'm just saying that we do have precedent for such content in game, and so I don't think that the criteria I suggested are in conflict.

Obviously though, I haven't proposed an exact method for how it should be trained, and there are a lot of gaps in my proposal, which I think either Jagex, or other players might be able to help fill. Your criticisms are certainly valid, and I appreciate the time you put into giving such a detailed look into this idea.

I hope that given time, and perhaps some input from other players, I might be able to polish up some of those skipped-over points.

Seriously though, thank you for taking the time to take a look at this and give your thoughts.

29-Jul-2017 05:42:34

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I hadn't really thought of the possibility of having things change dramatically as you level up. That might make for an interesting progression in the skill. I'll have to think a bit on that.

Right now, I've got you down as a "pass", since you seem to hold reservations about the unknown elements regarding the skill. Is that fair, or would you rather me put you down as support or non-support?

Trying to keep an analysis of votes going.

29-Jul-2017 23:06:55

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Orchrist, nothing wrong with being critical! As I said, I appreciate it. I just wanted to make sure I was accurately reflecting your views. Thanks for the support though.

And the rest of you too. I'm actually kind of astounded how overwhelmingly positive the response here has been. If we get a couple more supports before any non-supports, we'll actually reach statistical significance at the .05 level, which is honestly rather surprising given how short of a time this topic has been up for.

06-Aug-2017 05:00:18

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's a fair point, though worth noting that it would only apply to certain types of bars (bronze, iron, silver and gold), since other bars require coal which can't be gotten in nugget form.

I think a solution could be to have a cap on the number that can be smelted at once (perhaps 28).

08-Aug-2017 10:30:35

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rosewaver, I definitely agree it shouldn't be like Dungeoneering - for one, it would be a part of the world, and not a separate area cut off from it. When I suggested something a bit more similar to a minigame, I still meant something that could be picked up and dropped whenever.

So less "fight caves" and more "pyramid plunder", in that sense.

As for the draining, I explained, I think, in the first post, but I can explain again:

Rather than having a drain rate, like Prayer does, Druidry has a set amount of Anima drained when you activate an ability. Then, afterwards, over time your Anima will restore naturally.

This is to prevent players from being able to always have their powers active, and also to prevent the issues that Prayer has - most notably, because Druidry drains power all at once, it would not be possible to "flash" your powers, like people sometimes do for their prayers.

As for the rate, that's a matter of balancing I'd rather leave for the mods to work out.

---

1Nosferatu, don't worry, I've added you into the support calculation. You weren't skipped over.

I keep track of who supports and who does not support each idea I make, though I don't maintain a supporter list, since I think those are kind of pointless, since if someone is interested in that information they can just read through the topic, and will see each person's reasoning as well.

11-Aug-2017 20:23:11

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd be fine with an idea like that, but I don't know how much other people would like it, and I'm not really sold on some of your specific examples.

Perhaps abilities of that nature could be polled as part of a "batch 2", if enough good examples could be come up with.

I'm not really too worried about bots botting Druidry, because it would generally be an inefficient option for them - the utility of Druidry usually applies over a long period of time and over multiple skills and whatnot - an account that is in danger of being banned at any time would most likely be better served by just training whatever skill it is they want normally.

Anyway, I appreciate the support!

Oh, and since I said so, The_Root, I appreciate your support as well. Thank you!

02-Sep-2017 18:36:27

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thanks for the support Blandro.

TheRickest, I think Jagex would need to do some polishing of the idea into a more proper proposal, fixing some of the gaps I left, before they could poll it.

I think the next step would be them actually reading the idea or acknowledging, in some capacity, that it even exists.

I'm going to try to bring it to their attention eventually - I have a few conditions I'd like met first before doing that.

I really appreciate your enthusiasm though!

13-Sep-2017 01:19:08 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2017 01:19:24 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Doktor, I don't really understand what you would want in a skill then.

You want a skill that is pointless to train and gives you no advantages?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I genuinely don't understand what you could possibly want here.

Also don't hide behind the idea that "other people don't want this." You don't want this, and that's fine. Other people do. Currently, including your non-support, we're at 89% of players supporting this idea, so I can say with a very high level of confidence that the majority of players disagree with you here.

p = .00002

Again, that's fine, you've got every right to disagree. The minority opinion is important, which is part of why polls require 75% support and not 50%. But I don't like it when people try to hide behind "oh well I think other people might not like this." Say what you mean, and be confident about it.

---

Alan B, I like a few of your ideas. The idea of converting dead trees to living ones is appealing, though giving players access to magic trees on demand would be a bit broken - perhaps if that were implemented, the tier of tree would be random, with rarer tree types only available rarely and at higher levels?

I'm thinking I should edit one of my reserves to indicate thought-out or high effort posts one of these days, for people who have given their own ideas to the skill.

14-Sep-2017 00:19:26 - Last edited on 14-Sep-2017 00:26:20 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For my own interest, I've also asked about this skill among players in the game itself, and I've gotten similar results to the forums - that is, the vast majority supporting the idea.

Given the way I play, merchants and PKers are probably underrepresented there, but I wouldn't expect either of those groups to really object strongly to this idea. Skillers, as a whole, seem to be fine with it.

You can say that you're not against a new skill, but from my perspective, I think you are. I think your standard for what a new skill should not do pretty much precludes any new skill from meeting your criteria, and if a new skill did meet your criteria no one would want to train it because it would be pointless.

Look, again, I'm fine with you disagreeing. I knew when posting this that some people wouldn't like this idea, and I knew the reason they were most likely to give. I don't think that reason has all that much merit, personally, but my vote counts for as much as yours does.

15-Sep-2017 14:58:46

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sun to Earth said:
Support! The skill sounds a little like Summoning, except without familiars - which is a good thing as the game has enough pets already. I also like that it focuses on just skills rather than combat, which has enough already. "Anima" is an epic name btw!


Oh gee Animacy, I wonder why you'd think Anima is a cool name? Hah, just joking with you. Thanks for the support, my fine person.

Summoning probably was a subconscious inspiration for this idea. I was a big fan in particular of the noncombat familiars and how they changed up skilling a little bit.

27-Sep-2017 04:14:18

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I appreciate all the support! If we happen to get one more supporter before the next detractor, we'll have actually reached p < .01 significance, which would be kind of bonkers.

Ur Exp 2 Me said:
Quite like it as a concept, although I hate the name "druidry".

Probably just me though :)


Can you at least give me that it's a better name for a skill than "dungeoneering?"

02-Nov-2017 19:15:16 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2017 19:15:34 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wet Nan Kiss said:
I'll have to think about this one in dept a little bit more to see if it applies to my gameplay in particular. I applaud your time spent and effort in wanting to make the game better. Keep up the good work mate, great job using your creativity!


I appreciate that. I'll put you down as a skip for now, but if you get around to updating your view I'll change that to a support or non-support, as is appropriate.

02-Nov-2017 23:14:27

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
jApollo said:
What i'm struggling to understand though..

I will grind like mad to get gathering skills to 99 obviously....

With the addition of Druidry, I will have to grind another skill like mad to a very high level just to get the bonus on training other gathering skills...

Personally, that doesn't motivate me a whole lot, that i'll grind another skill to then just grind gathering skills for a bit more xp/random resources potentially appearing.


Well, yes. It is true that the addition of Druidry would increase the total amount of time it takes to get all skills to 99. However! I think you're selling it a bit short.

For one... I sort of feel like if you don't enjoy the road to 99, why are you playing? To me, a lot of the fun in the game is in the act of training and leveling up. For instance, I train thieving, not because thieving is particularly useful to me, but because I just enjoy the act of being at Pyramid Plunder.

My first priority for Druidry is that the training method should be fun. If players train Druidry, I want them to enjoy themselves while doing so.

My second priority would be for it to make grinding other skills more fun. Personally, I would enjoy having various effects to activate while training, say, Fishing, or Woodcutting - it would break up the monotony of those skills a bit, and keep me more interested.

So yeah. My philosophy in designing this was, since it's making the road to 99-all-skills longer, by virtue of being another skill you train to 99, it ought to make the road more enjoyable as well.

I don't know. Does that change how you see it at all?

If not, ought I put you down as a no-support?

18-Nov-2017 16:14:41

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I tweeted Mod Ash, and got this response:

"Tbh, we've got quite a lot on that's also got high support, and we wouldn't be able to try for a new skill anytime soon. But it does sound like a good theme for a future one."

And:

"If we were doing a new skill, I'd actually want it to be a lot of work. A properly big update. But there does seem to be general interest in getting one, one day, though players may have trouble agreeing on what it should be."

Which is about as good as can be expected.

So... yeah. That's kind of nifty.

What do you guys think? Ought I put these comments in one of the reserves? Seems significant enough to consider, at least.

18-Nov-2017 22:56:07

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Orcrist9 said:
Hey, at least they're open to the concept, acknowledging the interest, and not shooting it down at the start. That's actually really good and pretty awesome.


Yeah don't get me wrong, I wasn't being sarcastic. I think it was a pretty good response, and genuinely about as good as could be expected.

Even if he loved the idea, I doubt he could really say so because getting people's hopes up and then doing nothing with it would cause him problems down the line. The fact that he thought it would be worth considering for a future skill is pretty cool to me!

19-Nov-2017 16:49:00

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To add my own thoughts regarding that...

I still like the idea of giving a use to hunter clothes, rather than introducing something entirely new.

I think the idea of there being some restrictions on some abilities has some merit, but I feel like it ought to be an update for later, and somewhat limited - think more along the lines of the way the Iban Staff works as a requirement for a single spell, rather than the way, say, runes work, where they're necessary for everything.

Either way, I appreciate the support, my fine person.

23-Nov-2017 05:20:37

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Adjolf said:
I also dont like the idea of making other skills level faster, getting a kind of Eoc theme back if that happens. You are very creative tho, i couldn't think of such ideas haha.


This is the most common objection, and to be fair, I expected as much, but at the same time I sincerely don't understand why people use it. No matter how I try to look at it, no matter how I try to understand it, the logic seems to me to fall apart at the slightest touch.

Like, don't get me wrong, feel free to object on any grounds you like. But so far no one has been able to explain this argument to me in a way that actually makes any sense at all, and I can't help but feel like the people using it aren't even sure what they mean.

28-Nov-2017 00:40:20

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Reminiscon said:
If you make skills faster to level then it devalues them for people who spent more time leveling them the slow way.


But to my mind, this argument totally ignores the fact that leveling an entirely different skill takes a huge amount of time and effort, which dwarfs the minor advantage you get to other skills.

Let me ask you this. Which has more value: Leveling Runecrafting to 99, or leveling Agility and Runecrafting to 99?

Agility allows you to run for longer, granting you slightly faster experience rates. By your logic, it would seem as though 99 Agility and Runecrafting is the lesser achievement.

But obviously, 99 Runecrafting alone is far easier than 99 of both.

To me, the increase in efficiency cannot fairly be seen as devaluing, because in order to get it it requires much more time investment overall.

If we were talking about some quest reward, or a new item, I could see your point. But we're not, we're talking about an entirely new skill.

To my mind, what you are trying to argue is exactly the same as "Agility devalues Runecrafting because if you train Agility to 99 it's easier to train to 99 Runecrafting."

How is it fair to gloss over the hundreds of hours spent training Agility? If you literally just started training Runecrafting from the beginning, you'd get to 99 in far less time than someone who first thought to get 99 Agility.

Again, to my mind this argument falls apart at the slightest touch. If you want to convince me that you'd thought this through, you can't just avoid addressing the most obvious and blatant counterpoint to your argument.

28-Nov-2017 03:21:40

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sure, go ahead.

The logic isn't as applicable to Summoning, given how you found charms while training other skills and the actual act of making them into pouches was usually pretty quick... So keep that in mind. But I stand by the basic logic.

I appreciate the support, by the way.

29-Nov-2017 04:33:56

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Maat said:
Hey Claw, you might want to make your Runecrafting/Agility argument more visible to the readers of this suggestion. I think it would effectively prevent future insubstantial easyscape arguments. You could add a pretty darn obvious link to it in one of the thread's first posts. :)


A few people have mentioned how compelling they find that argument to be, so I probably ought to do so.. Thanks for the idea. Also, Kaps67, thanks for the support!

11-Jan-2018 23:48:10

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Swift Punch1 said:
Clawdragons said:
To be fair, this skill IS an addition to other skills.


The point is it's doing nothing new except enhancing other skills.


That's a very different point from your original one. I'm confused, do you want updates to other skills or not? It seems weird to complain in one post that you want enhancements to existing skills and then complain in the next that this is primarily enhancements for existing skills.

Though, it would have its own training method, which would be something new, but yes, the bulk of the new stuff it offers would be enhancements to other skills (again, similar to prayer in that regard).

I guess I'm just confused about what exactly you want, since it seems like you're contradicting yourself.

15-Jan-2018 15:16:13

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm not entirely sure how that would work - what with trees falling down, fishing spots moving around, etc...

In principle I'm not opposed to it as long as it has a very long downtime. I.E., you can use it for maybe three to five minutes, and then takes half an hour to an hour to refresh, so that it would be fine for fixing yourself something to eat quickly, or for getting up and stretching, or those sorts of breaks, but would not be useful if you wanted to actually AFK a skill.

Breaks are fine. AFKing for long durations is not.

18-Jan-2018 04:31:12

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Druidry benefits Hunter, Fishing, Woodcutting, Mining, and probably Farming. It is primarily focused on "gathering" skills and has no benefits either for combat or for "refining" skills.

I think that list is reasonable. Consider Prayer: Prayer benefits training Defense, Attack, Strength, Hitpoints, Magic (if using combat magic) and Ranged. Druidry actually benefits fewer skills overall.

Yeah, it's useful to train Prayer, to some extent, if you're going to be training combat a bunch. Likewise, if you're training your gathering skills, it's useful to train your Druidry.

I think you might be overstating the amount of benefit that Druidry gives you. It certainly does not benefit every skill.

19-Jan-2018 19:57:43

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I had to do a recount of supports / nonsupports / skips because I lost track at some point. Hopefully my count ended up accurate.

Thanks for the support, by the way!

Just in case I lose track in the future, my count as of this point was 45/6/2.

22-Jan-2018 16:47:53 - Last edited on 22-Jan-2018 16:49:26 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think if you're holding out for summoning, and nothing else will do for you, you're going to be disappointed, and furthermore, if you vote against skills because "they're not summoning", you are essentially saying "no new skill will ever be added to OSRS".

But hey, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. All I'll say is that people like you are precisely why I said, as the percent approval of a thing increases, further percent increase becomes far more difficult.

24-Jan-2018 18:57:59

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It does reduce some of the hard work of other skills. It just requires time and effort to level itself.

Things Druidry does:

1 - Make other skills more efficient (both in gathering-speed and experience)
2 - Give an option for skillers to be more "active" without tick manipulation (activated abilities)
3 - Increase the total time to become a maxed account (by being a skill requiring training itself)
4 - Hopefully, add fun to the game by being itself enjoyable to train and also making other skills more enjoyable to train.

So yeah, it does.

01-Feb-2018 17:26:38

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
goodbye88 said:
I am hesitant to agree or like this idea, however that doesn't mean I'm against it fully.

You have some very interesting ideas. The artisan skill idea is something I really liked the sound of (being sort of a Slayer for skilling) and I feel this idea fits nicely into the artisan one.

So yeah, on the fence, but good post.


I appreciate that, whether you end up supporting or not. I'll put you down as a skip for now.

I think, potentially, this still leaves open the possibility for a different sort of artisan skill. Slayer covers combat, Druidry would cover gathering, it could still be possible for another skill to cover refinement. Though a good one would need to be imagined.

11-Feb-2018 05:15:50

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I like the idea of involving sacred clay in there somehow - it fits the theme pretty well - but I think that double experience is far too much. The experience bonus you'd get from using your Druidry when training other skills, I had in mind perhaps around the 10% level? I'm not sure, so don't quote me on that, there is so much that would go into balancing and skill uptime and whatnot.

I do think there might be some way to work some of the best elements of Stealing Creation in somehow though. I'm glad you took the time to tell me your idea!

05-Mar-2018 00:22:12

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To those of you who have supported, thanks!

To the rest, sorry that the idea doesn't appeal to you for whatever reason.

Treedot, I did discuss a similar training method in the training section - the "artisan-style training" I mentioned is similar to slayer, in a great many ways.

Jemidar, I did try to leave things fairly open for future updates and expansions, so I'm glad you can see that sort of potential.

Emilyy, thanks to you as well. I like to, ideally, tie the ideas I have into the existing lore. Runescape has a lot of potential to do so, having so much lore and so much of it unexplored or unused.

FoundedKing, I can honestly say that is not an objection I ever considered, and I'm honestly glad when people share their reasons.

26-Mar-2018 21:45:58 - Last edited on 26-Mar-2018 21:47:32 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It sounds worse than it is. They have actually done similar things in other places.

If you're not familiar, there was an area in RS2 called the Herblore Habitat. When you went there for the first time, there were no creatures, but by having a certain combination of farming stuff in a center area, you could cause a new type of Jadinko hunter creature to appear in the area.

The way it worked, as far as I could tell, was that the Jadinkos always existed in the area, but were invisible and did not interact with the player unless certain conditions were met. In the case of Sustain, the same would be true. So there is precedent for having this sort of thing in-game.

16-Apr-2018 15:36:36

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
OSRS exists because people didn't like the updates that Runescape came out with. This doesn't mean that they hated updates as a concept, it just means they didn't like the ones RS3 ended up with.

The fact that updates are frequently passing polls is proof of that.

Now, you might not like updates. You might not like this, if it were an update. But considering the majority of people have expressed support for this thread, you clearly don't speak for everyone. You ought to be comfortable enough in your own opinion to say "I don't like this" or "I think this is flawed" without needing to turn it into "Behind me is the force of the majority!".

22-Apr-2018 03:55:40

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Packyff said:
The general idea of the skill as "prayer for skilling" is good. However, once you got into specific abilities and how to train, you lost me.

Any minigame or group training suggestions I'm against. And, frankly, I think it should always be somewhat buyable. Nobody is going to vote yes to another skill that's trained like agility. There needs to at least always be a faster but expensive method in my opinion.


In further discussion throughout the thread, I think we've narrowed it down somewhat to an artisan-style training method of some sort - which would make training it feel more like Slayer than like Agility. Given the popularity of Slayer, I don't think it's fair to say people wouldn't like something like that for gathering skills.

That said, I wouldn't mind there being some items that players could use to get faster experience rates. A cannon can be used while Slaying, but no one considers Slayer a buyable skill. It's a matter of proportion and balance. The skill shouldn't be like Fletching or Prayer, where the prime determining factor is how much money you put into it, but that doesn't mean that it can't be a factor in more subtle ways.

Does any of that change your perspective at all?

01-May-2018 16:39:05

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So, a new skill was on the content poll as a possibility - they are assessing the interest in various types of new content, and apparently a new skill is at least on the table as something they would consider if there was enough support for it.

So that's cool.

23-Jun-2018 04:44:33

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Iron Sato:

There are some very key differences between Druidry and Prayer that were chosen to make Druidry a better fit for noncombat skills. The first is that Druidry is not susceptible to the same sorts of tick/flashing mechanics that Prayer is, and is balanced around an effect duration. This allows it to be used in conjunction with all skilling methods effectively, meaning tick-manipulation methods, AFK methods, and others besides.

Second, there is the issue of prayer potions - making this a subset of prayer would allow people to use prayer potions to maintain a constant effect, which would be detrimental to just about everyone. Prayer potions would increase in price, it would make various other skills more buyable, it would make skillers all essentially required to wear prayer-boosting armor, it would be extremely annoying for players trying to skill effectively due to the cost.

Also, and this is relatively minor, making it an addition to Prayer would prevent skillers from using the abilities - which, considering this is purely a skilling update, and a rather major and hopefully fun one at that, would be unfortunate. I'm not a skiller, and in general I don't mind that content is locked from people who want to limit their accounts, but for something like this? I don't see the benefit in withholding it from them.

All things considered, I would rather the ideas not be implemented at all, rather than be implemented as an update to Prayer.

Jesus Bacon:

The current thinking, based on feedback on this thread, is that it would have Artisan-style training - or, in other words, something similar to Slayer but for gathering skills. So you don't need to worry about that.

As for the comparison to lunar spells, I don't think that's really an accurate comparison. Lunar spells generally grant a single immediate effect which is replicated repeatedly, rather than an effect duration. Plus, the actual effects are quite different from what is seen with Lunars.

23-Jun-2018 16:55:01

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To everyone:

I had an idea which might help for balancing purposes, and I would like some feedback on it:

Should Druidry / Anima points function more like Run Energy/Agility, in the sense that there is always a set amount that you have access to, regardless of level, but as you level the skill your regeneration rate increases?

At higher levels, there would be no real functional difference between this and the currently proposed system, but for lower level abilities, it would make them scale better and be overall better balanced - otherwise low level abilities would, by necessity, have very low costs and would need some other limiting factor on them.

This would not change how the skill fundamentally works, and would mostly just allow for easier balancing.

23-Jun-2018 16:59:02

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
333333333:

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. None of the interpretations I can think of for what you said make any sense.

My best guess is that you are saying that OSRS shouldn't get Druidry because RS3 doesn't have Druidry, but considering they have said on multiple occasions that they don't want to create rehashed versions of RS3 content, and would rather create something uniquely OSRS... And considering most of our updates at this point are unique content rather than RS3 content... that interpretation just doesn't make sense.

Would you mind clarifying your point?

Iron Sato:

The abilities I gave were just examples, and I do think there should be a fair few more. Ideally, each skill would have multiple viable abilities to use when training, adding to the available choice in the game.

However, it is difficult to propose such content in a thread like this, because the focus is supposed to be on the skill itself, not the details, what with the specific details being easily changed. I'm leaving it up to Jagex to consider what sorts of abilities specifically are the most appropriate.

I am fine with some more unique effects. But I do think that Druidry should remain a support skill - leaning too heavily towards unlocking new content with it would change the feel of the skill. I want it to be more analogous to Prayer in terms of its effects - and Prayer does have some useful, unique effects (protection prayers come to mind) as well as simple stat buffing effects. But I don't want it to be too much like Slayer, where it completely eclipses most traditional methods of training or gathering.

Anyway, that's just my stance on the matter.

24-Jun-2018 15:47:05 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2018 15:47:23 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I very strongly feel that Druidry should not be a combat skill, so none of the abilities should directly affect combat. I think if it had any impact on combat, players would get flashbacks to Summoning, and would very intensely dislike the skill, and it would, without a doubt, fail the polls.

Adding new versions of every fish, every ore, etc, would be a lot of work for very little benefit - the results still ought to be tradeable (otherwise, it ends up in the "affecting combat too much" category), so, for instance, most of the fish would be identical to existing fish of a higher tier, with the exception of what are already the highest tier fish... While at the same time, higher quality ore would, if it made better armor, still be pretty worthless in most cases because it's not like most people actually use, say, runite armor - it just gets created and then alched.

As to this:

"I disagree that you don't need to decide on the details of the skill, because without those how will people know whether to support it or not?"

Your support would, in this case, be determined by whether or not you think the skeleton of the skill is good. There is no way that Jagex would ever just take all of my ideas and create a skill out of them with no modification, so by necessity you would have to make a secondary determination if the skill ever ended up getting polled.

Your support, in this case, basically amounts to "I think this is a good idea, and Jagex should see what they can do with it", and emphatically NOT "I would vote for this in a poll".

It is a fact that the devs would modify and adjust things as they see fit, for balance reasons, for lore reasons, or for other reasons, so I am specifically avoiding filling out too many abilities because people would see those abilities, and make a determination on them, rather than the core of the skill, without factoring in the sorts of changes Jagex might make.

What you've said on the matter convinces me I made the right choice.

25-Jun-2018 04:01:27

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sorry for the delay in response.

I'd like there to be some sort of combination with Herblore, but I'm not sure what it ought to be - Druidry is primarily focused on gathering skills, while Herblore is a refinement skill.

I think, to be fair, that there would be a few ways that Druidry would make Herblore a bit easier - abilities that interact with farming and whatnot would make the gathering of herbs easier. But the other end of the spectrum is more touchy. That is to say, there are ways that Druidry benefits Herblore, but how would one make Herblore benefit Druidry?

I think, to go back to an idea I've been tossing around for a while, I might like to see some new uses for herbs, perhaps as incense or pultices, that make Herblore more true to its name. Right now Herblore might as well be called "Potionmaking" since... Well, that's all you really do. I think it might be interesting to have certain uses for herbs in their more "pure" form require both a Herblore and Druidry level - though there would need to be some mechanical differences separating them from just potions, and I'm going to be honest, I'm really not sure as to the details. It's the sort of thing that I feel like ought to be in "Druidry Pt II" - after the core of the skill is implemented, a second wave of uses could be introduced, once feedback has been gathered and whatnot.

29-Jun-2018 17:38:48

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
iron sato said:

how would you feel about similar time effects, but non-combat? say an effect that makes ore respawn faster, or logs burn for longer?


I think those sorts of effects are fine for Druidry, and are in the same general class as the sorts of things I suggested. Particularly the ore respawn, which would fit quite well.

As far as boosted potions... That's kind of a tricky question - which is why I think a "Druidry Part II" would be useful - the first part would decide if the skill is something people are interested in, and the second would nail out some additional details with respect to Herblore and some other uses.

Personally, I feel like, at least with regards to ore, there needs to first be a focus on Smithing as a skill, since most things that you can make with it are pointless. In other words, I feel like trying to come up with additional advantages to Smithing via a skill which is not Smithing is, in the current state of things, a recipe for disaster.

I'm kind of touchy on that subject though, because Smithing is my least favorite skill right now and I think it needs some major focus to bring it up to par with most other skills.

I'm going to keep thinking on the extra-fish-effects idea and see if I can come up with anything that stands out to me.

01-Jul-2018 03:12:15

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm fine with off-topic posts. If I am allowed even a modicum of control in this thread, I think expanding on other ideas should certainly be allowed here.

Sad to say though, that I don't have any thread up on extra Herblore applications. Those are some ideas I've bandied about at various times, but the only threads tangentially related died long ago. I'd have to make a new set of threads, which is something I might do eventually, but right now I have too many scattered ideas to make anything coherent.

03-Jul-2018 03:57:08 - Last edited on 03-Jul-2018 03:57:21 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dn Isilith said:
I don't like it. We don't want this game to become another rs3 with easy to grind skills and no notion of time and reward.

We need a new skill that doesn't base itself around other skills that is it own thing but can support other skills.

Personaly I'd like dungoneering back because its really the only skill that forces you to play with lower levels, has nice rewards and something that force player interaction that isn't endgame.


I've explained elsewhere in this thread that, due to the nature of introducing a new skill to train, the amount that this would make other skills easier/faster would be less than the amount of time which it takes to train Druidry in the first place.

The analogy I've used elsewhere is Agility - the ability to run constantly unarguably makes other skills both easier and faster, but itself requires so much training that to argue that it made things "easyscape" is simply ridiculous.

If you don't like the skill, that's fine, but that particular argument against it seems to me to be incredibly weak.

Also, Dungeoneering isn't coming to OSRS. It will not get polled, and it would not pass a poll either. So that's kind of irrelevant here.

22-Jul-2018 07:54:35

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dn Isilith said:

Osrs forums in a nutshell. Why don't you like my idea when you point out it's flaws and give reason as to why it would shape the game into the same version that is now dying called rs3?

This type of skill would destroy all the hard work and goals osrs stand for by lower the 99 requirement thus invalidating alot of work players did before hand which is one of many why Rs3 died.


I'm fine with people disliking the idea. I'm fine with people pointing out what they see as flaws. But if someone says that they dislike the idea for a reason that I don't think actually holds up under scrutiny, I will absolutely point that out.

===

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario. Let's say you made a thread proposing Dungeoneering comes to OSRS. And I went into the thread and said "Dungeoneering was a bad skill because it forced you to play in a group. Skills should be solo-able."

Now, a reasonable and justified response on your point would be to point out that you can do solo Dungeoneering. Imagine then that I said "Typical, I point out the flaws in your idea and you ignore me."

This is how I feel about what you've done here. You gave a criticism that I think is wrong, and when I explained why, you ignored the explanation.

You can dislike this idea all you want, and even for any reason you want. But if you give a reason that I think is wrong, I will explain to you why I think it is wrong. The very right that you've got to disagree with me is the same right I have to disagree with you.

12-Aug-2018 16:46:14

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CostcoSlime said:
We can potentially design bosses around new druidry abilities such as Ocean's Bounty where you need to flick it somehow at a certain time to get a big fish from some skilling boss to show, idk. I hope you get what I'm getting at here. Could be a way to revive skilling somehow.


I could see Druidry having applications for bosses, but that's not something I want to go in depth into because Druidry isn't in the game. It's nice to think of all the things that could be done with a skill, but if the skill doesn't exist yet then that's rather premature.

As for prayer-flicking - right now Druidry mechanics actually prevent "flicking" by having a cost and duration - there could still be various more click-intensive ways to apply the skill overall, especially with respect to potential bosses, but flicking is not one of them.

Thanks for the bumps, though. I appreciate it.

05-Sep-2018 19:48:26 - Last edited on 05-Sep-2018 19:48:52 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CostcoSlime said:

Prayer switching is still a thing lol. We might be able to apply a similar concept to this maybe? Idk. Think of how it could open up new ways to skill. Imo this has the best chance of any skill suggestion I've seen thus far at passing. I'm also a huge fan of unorthodox skilling such as the Blast Mine.


I definitely think that switching your Druidry abilities should be a thing.

My issue with prayer flicking is that it allows you to completely bypass the cost of prayer - you can get all the benefits of the prayers without having to use any prayer points, which, to me, is broken. I actually do rather like the high click-intensivity aspect of it, as a choice for players to reduce cost or increase effectiveness, so I'm all in favor of Druidry having some more click-intensive options.

I also like unorthodox skilling. The Blast Mine is a pretty great piece of content. I'm also a fan of a lot of the things on Fossil Island.

I actually gave a fair shake to creating armor sets in Kourend as a possible training method, but turns out that's hot garbage, which is sad because if it were buffed a bit I could see it being an interesting way for people to train... but as it stands it's hot garbage, as I said. That's kind of off topic though.

05-Sep-2018 20:42:21

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Grind 24-7, I'm of the opinion that any update ought to be judged on whether or not it makes the game better primarily, before looking at what a subsection of the playerbase feels about it.

Because, I don't consider OSRS a dead game. I think the game should consider that new players can and will join the game. I think that effects that effect exp-gain, balanced when considering the rate at which Druidry is trained, results in an overall better skill.

Having options that boost experience alongside options that boost GP/yield and various other options gives players more options which allow them to choose what fits their playstyle. If you only allow for GP boosting effects, then in essence you are limiting the player to just one playstyle, and, as all abilities are in the same "class", they collapse down to "what single ability is objectively best in this scenario?"

That's bad. That removes player choice.

Players don't want massive buffs to experience. That's understandable. Particularly because if one new method were clearly superior to other methods by being far better in one way, it would, again, remove choice from players. This is not a massive buff, and I think players have shown that they are willing to accept minor changes to experience rates.

You say that everything has been in the game from the beginning. What we all started with. But that's not true. Many benefits have been added to the game over the years, and have been met with positive reception - including ones that absolutely have an effect on experience rates.

A lot of the stuff on Fossil Island is an example (and, in my opinion, a great example of excellent game design). Stamina potions and Graceful are another. There's some stuff on Kourend that's been positively received.

The fact is the "EXP rates cannot increase at all!" people have lost. They have. And they will continue to do so, whether this skill is added or not.

24-Sep-2018 05:58:29

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am not going to change this idea to remove the effects that change experience rates, because I don't think it would improve the skill, and also, I don't think I need to. The absolutists are not the majority. They are not a large enough minority to keep polls from passing. On the contrary, they seem to be rather negligible.

24-Sep-2018 06:00:20 - Last edited on 24-Sep-2018 06:00:41 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Martonos said:

Now I am starting to feel pity for you, you are doing this to every suggestion thread? How much of a low life are you?


It's not worth it to fight with them. At best, it'll only start a pointless fight. Better to just ignore it.

15-Oct-2018 17:38:21 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2018 17:39:05 by Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The training method that we've narrowed in on throughout the topic (which I really ought to edit the front page to make clear) is something similar to Slayer or the proposed Artisan, except for gathering skills. You're told of areas where, say, nature is out of balance, and you can go skill in those areas to fix it.

I'm going to make a more-full proposal soon, since I actually have a good idea for how it all ought to work now, but a short version is, again, it'd be similar to Slayer in the method of training.

Allow me to make some notes on buyability, and what I mean. What I don't want the skill to be is a skill where your rate of training is primarily determined by the amount of money you're willing to put in. I don't want it like Construction, but I also don't want it like Fletching.

I think, again, Slayer would be a good analogy for the ideal state. With Slayer, you can change your experience and gold rates by choosing to block, extend, skip, etc., various tasks, as well as by using different gear or items on tasks. A player can make a bunch of money by choosing to go to a boss, at the cost of slow experience, or they can choose to set up a cannon and blaze through a task super fast... But overall the skill is not buyable, because the primary component is not money, but time.

I certainly want players to have meaningful choices in how they train, and part of that is the interaction between money and time.

Does that help to answer your questions?

Again, for a full writeup of the training method that I thought of... Expect something to be put up tomorrow or thereabouts.

12-Nov-2018 05:56:46

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So, as promised, here's the proposal. Let's see what you guys think.

As I've alluded to in this thread, the training is task-based. You get an assignment from a master Druid, who seems some imbalance in nature that needs fixing.

In essence, rather than being told a specific type of skilling to do, you're given an area to skill in, with various restrictions. To make this work well, additional skilling areas would be implemented, particularly in areas of the map that would naturally contain some form of corruption, and, some of these would require a certain Druidry level to make use of.

In order to understand exactly what you'd do for a task, let's take a look at an example:

One possible task could be to clear some of the corruption surrounding the Poison Waste swamp. The player would have several choices around here - chopping trees, fishing in the waters, mining down hunks of waste.

Chopping trees would have a chance of cutting toxic logs, granting Druidry experience when cut (and potentially bonus Druidry experience if the player then burns those logs, cleansing them fully). There's also a fair chance of getting regular logs for whatever sort of tree is being cut, so tasks have something of a variable amount of time they can take, but would generally be balanced at being in the half-hour to two hour range or thereabouts.

Similarly, fishing in the waters would get the player polluted fish. Mining the poison chunks would be based on how many chunks are broken down (sometimes finding valuable ore in the sludge).

Tasks would generally but not always have some element of choice to them (if the player has a high enough level to access all the content in an area). And the different choices would differ in more than just the skill being used - the tree cutting, in our example, might be the method that takes the longest to complete the task, but gives a fair chunk of Druidry experience, while the mining might be the fastest way to complete the task, but more active.

13-Nov-2018 06:39:33

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mind you, not all tasks will involve new content - certain Druidry assignments might just have you fishing or hunting to deal with an issue of overpopulation, which would involve more standard areas.

There would also be elements of choice in which druid the player chose to go to for assignments, as different ones would tend to favor different areas. Perhaps the Nature Spirit could act as a master who'd give tasks in and around the Morytania area, as an example. An upside of this would be that there could be a Druidry master that focuses on skilling tasks in the Wilderness - it makes sense, given what a wasteland the Wilderness is, that some Druids would try to restore life there.

The main rewards for training Druidry would remain the abilities unlocked at different levels, but certain areas and methods could also be locked behind Druidry levels, so that the places you can go to gradually increase as you level up. Your training rate would scale both with your Druidry level (accessing new areas) and your regular skill levels (being able to woodcut / hunt / mine / etc. faster).

13-Nov-2018 06:39:40

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A long time ago I came up with a skilling prayerbook on which this is heavily based. The skilling prayerbook was from series of quests done in the Poison Wastes, with a focus on the Anima Mundi.

The three quests were called Mundi Mourning, Mundi Evening, and Mundi Knight.

I don't know if any of that sounds familiar or not.

I'll read your timekeeping thread soon enough. Though, fair warning, I tend to be on the critical side.

16-Nov-2018 17:03:54

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I do appreciate the thought behind the bumps you've been giving, but I don't like the postcount of my threads inflated with bumps, so I'd kind of appreciate you holding back on it unless the thread has fallen back to like, page 10 or something. Plus some other reasons, mostly related to how it looks to people reading the thread.

19-Nov-2018 03:26:16

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2poor4gdname said:
only got to the part where you get metal nuggets and stopped what the point in that you will have to bank your normal ore anyway and if its rare then you would most likely get one a bag meaning it may aswel been an ore....only situation this makes sense is in power mining because you would keep the nuggest because they stack but thats like bringing an update in simply for pures or anyother small group of players....would never pass.


I'm not sure what you mean by your comment about pures. This skill isn't particularly designed with pures in mind, and some of the stuff I've proposed through this thread might not be accessible to pures in the first place.

Your comment on the compression ability also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. First of all, it's an example ability. I'm more interested in what people think of the skill as a whole rather than the handful of examples I gave, especially if they stop at literally the first example. Second of all... as far as that ability goes, yes, you would still need to bank because of regular ore, but you could mine more at a time before banking, making your trips more efficient. And furthermore, having stackable ore nuggets would also make smithing more efficient.

It's not going to completely overthrow how people train, but that's because it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be a minor benefit that makes your training more effective if you use the effects.

Think about it like this. Whether a player uses Piety or not, they will eventually need to bank for potions and food. Does that mean that Piety is worthless? Of course not.

23-Nov-2018 09:08:01

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
xMrMeow said:
Why not just add a prayer book that is entirely focused on skilling prayers with very slow drain rate? It'd expand an existing skill, we need more reason to get prayer over 77 anyway. Ancient Curses was a new prayer book that got added ages ago before EoC even existed so new Prayer Books aren't a new concept by any means.

The ideas here for skill usage are all solid, and I do quite miss having skilling familiars from summoning, but a lot people aren't in favor of new skills being added to OSRS, so it'd probably have a much better chance of passing if you just threw these great ideas into an existing skill that could use some love (like half the skills in osrs are only useful for achievement/quest requirements).


I do have reasons against this.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I would prefer a skilling prayerbook to nothing, but... Well, as I see it, there would be some problems with going that route.

First, Prayer is primarily a combat skill. Adding in a skilling prayerbook would seem odd to me, in the current state of the game. I think if we did have ancient curses, or some other alternate, more traditionally combat-focused prayerbook, it would be reasonable to perhaps consider a skilling prayerbook.... But since that's not the case, it seems a bit odd.

In much the same way, I would have thought it'd be a bit odd if Lunars were the second type of magicks introduced. It makes more sense that it was introduced after Ancients.

Admittedly, that's a bit minor, but I do have a few other points.

Basically, Prayer has a bunch of unwanted baggage that goes along with it. Prayer potions and other forms of restoration would be obnoxious to need to cart around while skilling, and would give too much of an advantage to players who just want to dump money for faster experience rates.

Furthermore, it would make prayer gear too important - I don't want everyone suddenly wearing Proselyte while skilling.

(continued next post)

12-Dec-2018 04:26:49

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Then, talking about experience rates, I think that would be another big issue with introducing something like this in an existing skill. Introducing it in an existing skill would effectively be a straight buff to players who've already gotten a high prayer level. The "easyscape" argument would suddenly be a lot more legitimate.

I think this works better as its own skill, because it requires its own training, and that bypasses the problem of giving effortless increases to experience and yield.

Another point I'd like to bring up would be, while I'm not a fan of updates catering to pures, and this would have some content that's not going to be accessible to skilling pures, I do think it is at least worth considering that this update would be of large interest to skilling pures, and considering the positive effect it might have on the overall experience training skilling, I think it's worth at least factoring that into the decision.

Finally... The thing is, while many players might not want a new skill... I, for one, do. And, if the responses to this topic are anything to go by, a surprisingly large portion of the playerbase agrees on that point.

So yeah. Long story short, I think this works better as its own skill rather than an addition to Prayer.

12-Dec-2018 04:34:44

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
Ecnaloth said:
Support. I generally don't like skilling due to its repetitive nature and this sounds like a great way to make it more interesting. I particularly like the group skilling aspect.


One thing i will say...dungeoneering was built for group skilling and had massive demerits for people that weren't in a group, it was boring for them because it was designed primarily as a group activity and just had no real appeal doing it by yourself....and that was one of the things many people hated about it.


This is honestly a pretty good point, and something that I detested about Dungeoneering as well. That said, my original idea with the group skilling was more of a minor benefit, compared to Dungeoneering's practical requirement.

Think something more like, you're at Motherlode Mine and someone else cuts through the rockfalls and you save a couple seconds. Or you're at Sulliusceps and someone else de-aggros the tar beast. Probably slightly more than that, but in effect, something which is more of a "Huh, that was nice. Thanks for that, buddy!" and not like "IF I DON'T HAVE A SKILLING PARTNER THEN MY RATES ARE GARBAGE THIS IS AWFUL!".

I think the scale matters here.

09-Jan-2019 22:33:16

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Gleythar, I've actually answered the point about why it shouldn't be a part of prayer before, at least in part. So I'm going to link you to that post here.

HC Ravi btw, the equivalent of prayer-flicking wouldn't be a thing, due to the mechanics of how the system works. For one, I wanted Druidry to be compatible with different methods of skilling, including tick-manipulation methods, and if you lost a bunch of efficiency trying to do both at once, that would be unfortunate.

I wouldn't mind there being some lower-duration effects that reward more active players. And of course, since the effects of Druidry would be effectively multiplicative, they would inherently reward more engaged players over less-active ones.

08-Sep-2019 19:39:56

Clawdragons

Clawdragons

Posts: 4,519Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CapitalPain said:
no support

sorry i see you put alot of work in this but makes no sense to me, another pointless skill for ironmen


All of the benefits i cam just buy, unless this gives extra exp i or alot of people dont care. extra fish ughh noty get too much fish as it is, people drop unless (ironmen)

loads of this is just towards ironmen and for a maingame player its a defo no.


I'm not an ironman, and I didn't design this with ironmen in mind. It would help them in some ways, but it would help main players in some ways. And yes, there would be abilities which affect the experience you receive in one way or another. If you trained Druidry and used it while skilling, you would be able to get better exp rates than someone who had not, in the same way (though to a lesser degree) that someone using prayers can get better exp rates during combat than someone who is not using prayers.

And just like prayers, not all of them would be relevant to all players. As a player who does not PK, I don't use smite, for instance. Various Druidry abilities would be niche or situational. Others would be much more general-use.

04-Jan-2020 19:57:59

Quick find code: 322-323-510-65929142Back to Top