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NotFishing

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You should give Zaros a point for all the races he tortured to create the Nehil in the first place. He specifically targeted winged humanoids, which should count as an ethnic group. That should even it out at no points lost or won.

Seren's actions to the Mahjarrat should not count as genocide. She did not wipe them out. On the contrary, she actually prevented them from dying out or being destroyed by Mah.

Saradomin getting the centaurs killed should not count either. You're right about the others he killed, though.

You gave Armadyl a point, which he doesn't really deserve. We have no idea what happened, and can only assume that he killed a god or charged himself up with an Elder Artifact (Sliske mentions he has a secret weapon, and Armadyl swears he will never use it again.)

You're right about Zamorak.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 01:46:30 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 01:49:29 by NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said:
Once again, as the individual in charge of the centaurs, Saradomin holds the most responsibility


Why isn't Armadyl responsible for the Aviansie?

Why isn't Zaros responsible for the Dragon Riders or Cthonians?

Why isn't Zamorak responsible for the Mahjarrat?
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:07:30 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:09:54 by NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said:
Zamorak shoulders more responsibility for the Aviansie.


Why? How come Saradomin is responsible for the Centaurs, but Armadyl isn't responsible for the Aviansie? They both brought them to Gielnor and used them as soldiers. Both races were nearly wiped out under their leadership.

The only difference is that one was eradicated instantly by a single individual, while another was eradicated over time against multiple opponents.

Unicornz pwn said:
Zaros did not cause the riders' infertility, nor did he have any role in the Cthonians being overthrown.


Do you really think he helped the matter by having them join the war effort? "Hey, your population is diminishing and you have no way of replenishing it. Come fight and die for me!"

As for the Cthonians, they were still under Zaros's leadership. And they were wiped out by Zaros's most trusted commander, who he failed to keep in check. Therefore, Zaros failed them as a leader. Had they not joined him, they would still be alive.

Unicornz pwn said:
Not really sure how Zamorak can be blamed for the Mahjarrat's present condition...


He caused a massive split in their ranks when they rebelled against Zaros. Many were killed. Even more will killed afterwards in the ensuing God Wars against Saradomin, Armadyl, and Bandos. They continued to sacrifice each other afterwards because they believed in Zamorak's philosophy of "survival of the fittest." Now they only have about a dozen or so left.

It's flimsy logic, but so is the logic you use for many of your other arguments.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:28:04

NotFishing

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Cthris said:
It might be worth mentioning that in the Zaros above the lore podcast Mod Osborne said that Zaros went to great lengths to ensure that Char was the only one left... This suggests genocide to me.


Was that the exact wording? Because to me, that only suggests he looked for survivors to see if there was still some hope for her race to continue. What would he gain by hunting her to extinction?
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:30:56 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:31:40 by NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said:
I can be accused of bending the rules and terms a little, but your own assessments would snap them outright.


You do realize I was using your logic against you, right?

Apparently, if you put a race under your leadership, and then said race dies under your leadership, you are responsible. But for whatever reason that only applies to Saradomin, and not literally every other god who has had soldiers die on their watch.

Cthris said:
You can listen r to it yourself but I'm pretty sure the exact words were ensure in the context of cause. What would be the point of saying Zaros looked for them when the question asked was whether they still existed es. Also the reason to do so was to cause a Mega powerful Char, due to her grief she gained all these extra ordinary powers that most of her race didnt.


I'm not going to dig up an old podcast. But let me get this straight:

Q: Did anyone from Char's race survive?
A: Zaros ensured that there weren't any left.

That is still ambiguous.

Why would Zaros try to save Char's race? For the same reason he tried to save the Dragon Riders and the Mahjarrat. For the same reason he gave the Vampyres a society. To help them reach their full potential and get them on his side in one move.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:48:07 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:48:41 by NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said:
Once again there is a distinction between how the two races met their end. One was from constant warring at the command of their god (the same logic that would make Bandos responsible for genocide) and the other was the result of an individual literally nuking them all.


See Hazel's post above about how Armadyl brought the entire race into Forinthry. You really don't think Armadyl is responsible for that?
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:54:42 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:55:26 by NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said:
Saradomin is indirectly responsible for the Centaurs.
No one was more directly responsible.


That isn't fair. You're basically dumping all the blame on Saradomin's shoulders because you don't know who really was responsible.

If someone robs a bank and gets away with it, you don't lock up the bank owner because he handed over the money.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 03:22:57 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 03:26:58 by NotFishing

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