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TH repercussions?

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Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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OP, none of your "regulations" are true. Nobody has submitted anything. They were all talks and nothing at all. That's why nobody can even tell WHAT EXACTLY THOSE "BILLS" ARE.

There is also no lootbox regulation anywhere in the world except China. But perhaps to your disappointment, no gambling or age are even mentioned in the Chinese lootbox regulation because it is not gambling. There is only 1 regulation in the Chinese lootboxes, i.e., transparency of the content. Nothing else there.

No game developers and publishers in the world will do anything because they are not required to.

14-Feb-2018 03:29:08

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
Why are you defending MTX? It is the plight of this game, and everyone hates it.


I am not defending MTX, I am just not attacking it. The reason is very simple because it is useless attacking a company trying to make money the legitimate way. MTX monehy is money. Subscription money is money. To a business like Jagex, they are always trying to make as much money as possbilbe for their investors. Even if their investors are so stupid they don't want to make money regulations of the Stock Exchanges prohibit such practice.

If somebody must link "regulations" into MTX, they also have to bear in mind that if whatever "regulations" exist only in their minds but unreal in the real world apply to MTX, they MUST also be applied to subscription. You can't say games of chance are "gambling" if you play TH with MTX but it is not gambling if you pay with subscription or Premier club.

I don't think I need to go over the "everyone hates it (MTX)" part since it is 100% obvious that a lot of people paid for MTX and just from this thread alone, it is not "everyone hates it" as somebody claimed. :)

15-Feb-2018 19:01:12 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2018 19:09:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Let me wake all you who are still dreaming about these non-existing "regulations" will change a thing up. These "politicians" are just talking. Nothing has been done. They are just trying to throw everything to the wall and hope something will stick but yet they are afraid to even throw anything to the wall. So far, it has been all TALKS. You can check with Congress and the governments of different countries like Belgium and they will tell you the non-existing "progress". :)

Realistically, it takes years if not decades to change regulations of this magnitude. Even for real world wagering events with real money changing hands such as Fantasy Sports which have been legal in most US States, nobody has been able to do anything the last 5 years to them although there have been debates over debates among very high level government officials.

MTX haters, dream on... perhaps one day 100 years later they will have regulations on games of chance, but then Monopoly (the board game) will be the first one to get regulated. It won't matter to me though. Just don't pass go and don't collect $200, but you always go to "jail" only in the game world.

18-Feb-2018 22:26:40 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2018 22:29:22 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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scousy said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Let me wake all you who are still dreaming about these non-existing "regulations" will change a thing up. These "politicians" are just talking. Nothing has been done. They are just trying to throw everything to the wall and hope something will stick but yet they are afraid to even throw anything to the wall. So far, it has been all TALKS. You can check with Congress and the governments of different countries like Belgium and they will tell you the non-existing "progress". :)

Realistically, it takes years if not decades to change regulations of this magnitude. Even for real world wagering events with real money changing hands such as Fantasy Sports which have been legal in most US States, nobody has been able to do anything the last 5 years to them although there have been debates over debates among very high level government officials.

MTX haters, dream on... perhaps one day 100 years later they will have regulations on games of chance, but then Monopoly (the board game) will be the first one to get regulated. It won't matter to me though. Just don't pass go and don't collect $200, but you always go to "jail" only in the game world.


If there was skill involved with th it would be different. Sports gambling there is skill involved that's why I would enjoy sports gambling over th.


Runescape is a game, an entertainment. Different players have different ways to be entertained. Some may prefer to use "skills" but some may just be happy to log in everyday to collect something nice. There is no right or wrong way to get entertained in a game.

18-Feb-2018 23:35:30

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
*Snip*


Actually it has progressed past the point of "Just talk" in a couple of states in the USA. As actual bills have been passed regulate these lootboxes. Not to mention this kind of thing will make it through the system quicker than sensitive issues like say same sex marriage. Although the hope is the gaming industry will self regulate before governments end up kicking the doors down and forcing the change.

As for your last statement well no one is against the free keys. What everyone is against is the fact that TH uses the same principles as gambling in order to hook people into buying keys. This is especially problematic since underage people in most countries can buy these keys and start a rather dangerous addiction while their minds are still developing. This is why everyone is against these kinds of practices.


If "Bills" have been "actually passed" how come everybody is still selling lootboxes, nobody is reporting them and no government intervention whatsoever? State what Bills they are or nobody will believe them whatsoever. Do people in the forums think companies don't have lawyers and even Average Joes and Janes all over the world don't know LAWS?

Again, it is crystal clear that not everybody is against "these kinds of practices" or else there will be real world police reports and lawsuits instead of game developers over game developes, reporting higher and higher and higher MTX sales years over years over years.

20-Feb-2018 19:41:22 - Last edited on 20-Feb-2018 19:45:22 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
*Snip*


Ok maybe passed wasn't the correct word and more submitted. But even if it did pass they do leave people time to adapt before the law is implemented. Plus like I said the intention is to push the game industry into self regulation so either way it won't be too long before we start to see change. Heck when RS mobile releases we may even see actual percentages on how likely we are to win prizes due to apple's new policies regarding the matter.

But back to the bills well it's four bills that have been submitted and they basically prohibit the sale of games which contain lootboxes to under 21, prohibit the sale of lootboxes to those under 21, prevent lootboxes from being added to the game after release and that games containing these lootboxes must disclose odds of winning prizes from them. This has been reported by various news outlets which I can't post due to forum rules. But if you don't beleive me look it up yourself.

While it's true not everyone is against lootboxes the vast majority of people are. Like look at Destiny 2 and Star Wars Battlefront 2 (aka the reason everyone is talking about lootboxes). Those two games have bombed due to how aggressive they are in marketing their lootboxes. It's clear that this lootboxes bubble is going to burst one way or another.


I told people millions time in these RS forums that anybody in the US can "submit" anything they want. It means NOTHING. I believe your "various news outlets" are just some private game forums/blog sites. If they are National news outlets, I don't see any rules prohibiting them being shown here.

The "majority of people" against lootboxes are definitely not reflected in Jagex's financial reports the last few years, particularly the growing and growing percentage of revenue from MTX. Players still play and pay. That's all good to Jagex. :)

21-Feb-2018 02:36:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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All your "US" gearing up for actions are just in game forums and blogs but not in the REAL WORLD.

You better check the REAL WORLD stock quotes and financial data before you try to link MTX with the performances of stocks in the (again, game forums and blog) news.

EA before the Battlefront 2 "crisis" traded at $106, today it closed at $126.
ATVI traded around $64 that time, today it closed at $70.84.

Both stocks are near all time record high although the US stock market has taken an overall 10% correction. So, what's costing EA "billions in stock value"? What "rapid decline" of Destiny 2? :)

21-Feb-2018 04:40:40 - Last edited on 21-Feb-2018 04:47:48 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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So again, you are just ignoring the real worlds and only live in the virtual worlds of some game or game related forums and blogs.

When these forum "journalists"/bloggers wrote EA's lost "billions of dollars in stock values" because of lootboxes, you believe of course that was because of lootboxes in Battlefront 2 and not other factors. But when the REAL WORLD REALITY shows EA's stock price is going up and up and up you claimed there are other factors involved. It has nothing to do with Battlefront 2. Very obvious double standard.

And don't forget Blizzard has lootboxes in all their games, not just Destiny 2 but nobody cried about them losing "billions of dollars in stock values", not even in the game or game related forums. So lootboxes only affect EA to "lose billions of dollars in stock values" but not Blizzard and other game companies, noticeably the heavily lootbox oriented Nexon? Yes, right. That only happens in virtual worlds but the real world stock markets don't work and show things like that. :)

Then you kept on talking about how bad players hate lootboxes (and you also worded it as MTX but obviously lootbox is just one of many forms of MTX) but in reality people are still playing and paying. Why do Jagex and other game companies care about the complaints of these forum people if they keep making more and more money from the real world community?

Let me tell you what? In the real worlds, not the virtual forum worlds, real companies don't even have to say a word or respond to any complaint about MTX. They just show you Promotion 1: Elite Skilling Outfit
Promotion 2: Hydra Lamps
Promotion 3: Double XP weekend skilling items.

Then every players in the real world should automatically understand what they mean is "oh come all ye faithful... look TH promotions promotions promotions buy now.. .buy now... we even have 75 keys bundle promotion popups.

Pals, they already show you what their business plan is without even caring a world in the virtual worlds. :

21-Feb-2018 17:58:21

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Real people look up stock quotes from STOCK EXCHANGES, not some "reputable" forums. Real people turn to police and governments for law and order, not some "reputable" bloggers.

Real businesses only operate under REAL events, not something that don't or will never happen. Who's living in the REAL WORLD and who's not? Well, REAL PEOPLE know.

If your definition of "losing money" is just not making money then why would Jagex "lose money" by hurting their own TH sales? Obviously, they won't. EA's Battlefront 2 sales are also never in the "billions" they will never lose billions like somebody claimed. Still, no reputable people have pulled up any real Battlefront 2 data to support their claim of "loss of billions in stock value" no matter what.

If you think Blizzard is OK to sell lootboxes and people tolerate it, that's the same reason why Jagex should keep doing the same. At least Runescape is not even as aggressive a lootbox game that you must buy random card packs like Hearthstone. Of course players will "change subject" and just play or even pay. That's because it is not that bad to them so they just shrug or else they won't even play.

Again, Nexon who owned Ndoors was the first developer who brought lootboxes to the West through Atlantica Online >10 years ago. Mobile gaming was not even remotely in any radar back then. Don't deflect the lootbox subject through mobile. Nexon has been making huge money through lootbox games for 10 years, way before the era of mobile gaming.

And again, if some REAL people really "kick Jagex and other game developers' doors" then obviously they will have to answer but guess who's knocking? Well, nobody, not even Santa and Bugs Bunny. That's why they all keep doing lootboxes and making more and and more money years after years. :)

22-Feb-2018 00:20:24 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 00:25:38 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I don't care how "reputable" whatever sites or whoever you want to pull up. If they are not the stock exchanges, Real People who look for stock information don't go to them and if they are not the law enforcement they are not the laws businesses and residents of their respective countries abide to.

Real businesses only run on real facts and regulations.

Seems like you are missing the most important point of running a profitable business. It is obviously how to make the most money, not whether the paying customers like, hate, shrug or switch topic over their goods/products. That's why McDonald's keep selling Big Macs for like 100 years although almost everybody knows it is unhealthy food and I don't have to explain they will keep selling them and making heaps over heaps of money unless some REAL WORLD LAWS stop them. But good luck waiting another 100 or 1000 years and who cares? People still eat Big Macs. Same thing in other businesses, online games included. :)

Last but not least, let me further tell you why companies like Blizzard and Jagex will just laugh off the MTX hatred but the ones like EA may still have to symbolically do something temporary. Hint... Hint... Nobody hate MTX in the East and Look at their Asian parents. They have tons of options. ;)

22-Feb-2018 01:40:40 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 01:54:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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People can look up stock quotes and information from stock exchanges and government laws and other information from official government sites easily themselves. They don't need to ask anybody. Companies even have lawyers who can help them too. No need to go to unrelated sites.

Whether you called "shady" business is just an ethical question, not anything wrong that McDonald's sell Big Macs even they know it can cause health problems as I have mentioned already. Besides, it is the customers own preference to buy such "shady" products. Don't blame the companies alone.

Japanese games do have lootboxes for years. Check out Final Fantasy, for instance. There is also no requirement to show odds of lootboxes in Japan. It is not gambling there. Again, you can check out FF and Square Enix if you haven't play their games.

You are also terribly wrong that I said most companies do not market their games to the East. I said companies like EA are not based in an Asian country but the parents of Jagex and Blizzard are China based. In case if you don't know, Fukong already hired >200 employees in China comparing to a slightly higher head count of 300 in Jagex. Fukong is already marketing games in China, just that not quite the Jagex ones yet because development is not completed but they will be marketed there as already announced in Chinajoy 2016. You are also extremely wrong that other Western companies are not marketing to the East. Steam already has a very big presence there. Other prominent names include Hi-Rez and of course, Blizzard. China regulation are nothing to real companies that provide real content in their real games. Only the shady online game pretenders like most of the Kickstarter ones wil have a problem.

22-Feb-2018 03:14:11

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Of course reputable News services like the ones everybody turns to on TV or radios are always related to our everyday lifestyle. But again, none of these news services have shown anything about "lootbox regulations" and financial information that Jagex must abide to. Jagex's lawyers know it. Jagex's brasses konw it. That' s why Jagex's game players know they have all these TH promotions. :)

I don't think anybody is addicted to Big Macs. Likewise, TH is not an addiction. Both products are just supplements to the enjoyment of our lives.

There are online game regulations in China sinec May 2017 but none in Japan. Lootboxes are in almost every game in the East, particularly in China and Korea. In fact, MTX is the de facto monetization method for online and social games in China. They don't even have monthly subscription in Chinese games. Even the WoW "subscription" in China is just pay-per-play MTX.

Westerners don't bank on success of their games in Asian, particularly China? You must be dreaming. China is the biggest game market TODAY.

Of course, Jagex respect their customers. That's why they have TH to please the customers who want such supplement to their gaming experience. Jagex respect all kinds of customers, whether they are members, free to play, Premier Club VIPS, or hybrids. That's why they have all kinds of services and events catered to all kinds and all levels of players.

Back to the most important regulation "issue"... If there are going to be such days when laws do not respect Jagex's way to support their employees and shareholders through Games of Chance and such, I believe Jagex will still respect such "regulation" and just move onto other places of the worlds that respect their services and welcome them with open arms. Fortunately to many, I think I will see Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny before the days of such "regulations". :)

22-Feb-2018 17:59:18 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 18:27:58 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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If all the other whatever sites can tell what Jagex and their parent are doing then they may be more relevant. If they don't even know Fukong in China has grown to almost as big as Jagex in 8 months, I beg Jagex WILL BE more interested in knowing what the hands that feed them do.

Caffeine is addictive. People have sued Starbucks for addiction. Nobody has sued any game developer for addiction and won, not even in any virtual game worlds. :)

Didn't I already tell you Square Enix has lootboxes in many games? FF joined that list a couple of years ago. Do you play Street Figher V? Capcom doesn't have lootboxes in their games? Good joke. Sega and Nintendo sell consoles games. Many MMO and MOBA run on them. They all have lootboxes. That's obvious.

EA doesn't mention their products in the East? What "reputable" sites told you that? Check out the REAL WORLD sites that give you REAL WORLD FINANCIAL REPORTS like this:

"
We also partner with third parties to publish our mobile and PC games in certain Asian territories, such as our partnerships with Tencent Holdings Limited and Nexon Co. Ltd. for FIFA Online 3 in China and Korea, respectively
. We believe that leveraging established brands across a diverse range of genres and platforms enables us to build long-term relationships with a wide variety of players. In fiscal year 2016, revenue from sales of FIFA 16 represented approximately 16 percent of our total net revenue; in fiscal year 2015, revenue from sales of FIFA 15 represented approximately 15 percent of our total net revenue; and in fiscal year 2014, revenue from sales of FIFA 14 represented approximately 15 percent of our total net revenue."

Who's in self-denial? Oh where oh where have my lootbox "regulations" gone? Meanwhile, in the real world, Jagex says: "TH Promotion: Time to Train". :)

24-Feb-2018 19:14:47 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2018 01:33:39 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Of course every business, Fukong and Jagex included, care about making most profits while minimizing risk. That's why they all go with the most profitable monetization method to minimize the risk of shutting down their shops and firing most employees. That's why you hear them sayings something like:
TH: TIME TO TRAIN!!!
to get 130k players online that they never had for quite a few years.

People suing lootbox? what? Where? When? Some players have sued Steam for linking to illegal gambling site but that's not because of lootbox... and they lost too. Other than that, nothing else. In the past couple of players have sued online games for being too "addictive" but nothing about lootbox. The funny story in one of that online game lawsuit for "addition" was the plaintiff's own lawyers came knocking at his door to collect fees but that broke gamer had no money to pay so he had to beg NC Interactive to pay off his lawyers to exchange for the dismissal of the "lawsuit".

Square Enix have many games, not just FF and they had lootboxes for years. Capcom doesn't develop most of their games. It is up to the actual developers on how to monetize their games. They can have lootboxes in Street Fighter if this developer want it but no lootbox in Monster Hunter if that developer doesn't. Likewise, Funorb doesn't have lootbox but it doesn't mean Runescape and other Jagex games won't have. Consoles, handheld, mobile or whatever platforms all support multiple games of different genres. Most of them have lootboxes for years. The bottom line remains the Japanese government has no problems and regulations over lootboxes in their country. That's obvious.

Obviously, who is in denial is clearly shown by the "invisible" regulations. The real fact remains:
TH: TIME TO TRAIN!!! and 130k 137k players are enjoying it.

25-Feb-2018 15:36:18 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2018 19:51:04 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Huh? Who said high player count means they all like TH? And who's "claiming vitory"?

High number of players playing this game despite of TH and other MTX promotions simply mean these things don't bother them. They don't have to like them but the fact is they still play this game. >30% more players showed up over the RS3 only BXP weekend clearly showed these almost 140k players don't care about TH and MTX, and >35k of them were clearly attracted to RS3 over the BXP weekend. Quality of the game matters, not TH or MTX they don't have to even need to look at. If some people are "claiming victory" they may be Jagex because they are the ones laughing to the bank. To me, a player, TH? MTX? I just shrug... I don't care and I don't have to and I did not even spend a penny. :)

Whatever CEO or director of ONE game doesn't represent the whole company with multiple games and they all have no influence to other games, let alone games in other companies. I mentioned Funorb does not have lootbox and MTX but why don't you go play Funorb instead of Runescape if TH or MTX is really that much a problem to your in a game?

If there are LAWS regarding lootboxes in Japan, their governments will cite such "laws" and command the "violators" to abide to the "laws" instead of having lawsuits going for years after years after years without any outcome.

Things are so obvious. Meanwhile, companies like EA are laughing to the bank with games of chance such as Ultimate Team Packs in every country of the world, including China, the sole country with "strict" lootbox regulation. Oh, Who care about lootbox "complaints" in titles like Star Wars? Bioware are talking about scrapping these titles with diminishing subscription revneue and increasing royalty fees to work on their own IP Anthem anyway. You can even see that from all your "reputable" sites. ;)

26-Feb-2018 17:18:46 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2018 19:28:23 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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ELITE STACK said:
I know th pays for all the updates so where are the nxt fixes with blackscreening and other complaints about the textures?


TBH, I don't think all 100% of profit from TH goes to improvement of the game. A good size of a for profit company's profits goes to the investors. But this is just how capitalism works. Since this thread is not about how TH money should be used and economics, I don't intend to talk more on that.

If you insist this is "evil", you may want to create another thread to whine about it and I will tell you how such "evilness" is actually good for business over there. :)

26-Feb-2018 19:24:33 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2018 19:25:17 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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No matter how you word it, the the RS3 only BXP weekend brought back >35k players over the weekend. It doesn't matter how many of them went to play OSRS it was still the TH Promotion: Time To Train BXP weekend that brought them back to the game. So they don't care about the TH promotion. It was the BXP RS3 content that got them back.

I believe you need not only to make one thing clear, but also read many things clear first. The CEO of Square Enix made a clear statement on his PoV on the company's lootbox and other MTX approaches. He said in 2 occasions that it depends on the game. On single player console games he doesn't see there is a need for lootbox because there is no competitive factor (or pay to win if you prefer) but the company's other titles like FF (where he reiterated FF is not one game but different games for different players) and Dragon Quests he thinks the "game as service" (or MTX, loot crates etc) approach fits the bill.

So you agree you play a game not just because of no MTX, right? Funorb has no MTX and you don't go play there but you rather play RS3 with TH and other MTX and not only that you are a gold Premier Club member. So you still play RS3 even with TH and you don't like it. That's the fact. Other people don't have to like TH but they still play and Jagex still make money. That's all good to them.

If the Japanese Government does not order Square Enix to stop lootbox (to be more exact, it is called Gacha in Japan), it means there is no law prohibiting lootbox. It is obvious. The lawsuit is just a civil lawsuit with plaintiffs looking for damages, not anything about regulation violation. If somebody breaks the laws like illegal gambling, the government simply arrest him and close the illegal casino right away. They don't have to spend 10 years to decide if they are illegal.

LOL. You just don't get the Bioware story. It was the EA bosses who got tired of the crappy SW titles and community reaching out for the axe... :)

27-Feb-2018 03:40:13 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 04:00:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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You want TH gone doesn't mean a thing and is not pertaining to this thread. No regulations requires TH to be gone. No companies need TH to be gone. A lot of players, and in fact, getting even more after this INVISIBLE "lootbox regulation" play. Jagex's responses to these "regulations"? In case if you still missed and don't see them:

TH Promotion: Time to Train
TH Promotion: Lava Lanterns. :D

Again, no matter how you twisted a certain people's words, it won't change the fact of them doing businesses. Let it be known that Mr. CEO of Square Enix endorses lootboxes in their flagship award wining FF and Dragon Quest series. He also said they have other single player console game that he doesn't envision putting lootboxes into, go play them if you want no lootboxes. :)

Twisting the nature of a civil lawsuit certainly won't change anything in the outcome. The exact lawsuit against Square Enix's Dragon Quest was an accusation on false advertisement that the plantiffs believed Square Enix has put one less item they mentioned in their description, not about lootboxes being "regulated", "banned" or there anything against them, and not on the odds of obtaining a certain item. It is simply a typical consumer dispute on a product. It has nothing to do if it is even a lootbox or not, let alone being a "regulation" issue.

What EA want to do in their games and community is their business. I bet their bosses are really happy with their FIFA Ultimate Team Pack
HAPPY HOUR
offers and how that community loves it for many many years. If this HAPPY FIFA community all over the world, including China, Korea and Japan are so
HAPPY
about games of chance, I bet they will be happy to play Anthem with
HAPPY HOUR
offers. Funny that nobody even shredded a "regulation" tear over FIFA UTP Happy Hour offers for so many years but only a few are so sore on SW

27-Feb-2018 17:18:52 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 17:28:12 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The "regulations" are not active yet? What ACTS or LAWS are they called? When will they become "active"? Please tell or they are just "invisible".

Read what the CEO of Square Enix said carefully. He said "... the whole idea, f
or a single-player game particularly
, is..." He referred to
single-player game particularly
all the time when he talked about not adding lootboxes.

You simply twisted the nature of the lawsuit there was no complaints on the "odds" of the lootboxes. The plantiffs simply complained about SE baited and switched them by removing an item from the product after the initial announcement. The group is asking for the $30k they paid back. They never mentioned anything about regulation. That's crystal clear.

You wouldn't say what or who is happy doesn't mean they are not happy. Nine months into the enactment of the Online Game regulation in China, nothing bad has happened to all the Western online game companies there at all. Even Steam who have a lot of problems with the EU, USA and Australian consumer authorities have no problems there.

You are not happy. You are not impressed and you call the whole world is not happy, not impressed. That's hilarious. They are paying and playing. Game deverlopers are happily laughing to the bank. :D

BTW, ESRB has reiterated lootbox is not gambling in online games. As I expected and mentioned many times, they don't treat lootbox, MTX and other payments including DLC, tiered memberships, subscription, etc differently. They even proposed to add a label to all these methods of payment to online games. Happy now? Uh oh... guess not... because all games will be bearing such label if ESRB go forward eventually and "ignorant" parents don't even have an excuse to charge back what their "underaged" kids paid because they are made aware of such in-game payments. Joy to the world. Very good to the parents. :D

28-Feb-2018 02:15:19 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2018 02:21:17 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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“We tried to find research on that,” Vance (President of ESRB) said, “but we were unable to find any evidence that children were specifically impacted by loot boxes, or that they were leading them toward some tendency to gambling. We truly don’t know of any evidence supporting those claims. We continue to believe loot boxes are a fun way to acquire virtual items; most of them are cosmetic.” Vance stressed that the items can be earned without a purchase but in either case “they’re always optional.”

“We don’t believe it does [fit the definition of gambling],” Vance said. “We think it’s a fun way to acquire virtual items to enhance users’ experiences. There’s obviously an element of surprise, like with baseball cards. But you always get something, there’s no way to cash out, and you can complete a game without buying a loot box. So there are a lot of different factors where we just don’t think this qualifies for either of the gambling descriptors.”


Hmm... my crystal ball shows me some people are not happy with ESRB. :(

But meanwhile.... game developers continue to laugh to the bank. :)

28-Feb-2018 02:44:05 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2018 02:46:27 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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ELITE STACK said:
This shit starting to hit the news just got real. :P


Well, unfortunately to the some virtual people, when the virtual hot air hits the REAL WORLD current, typically it backfires and pulverizes the pixel people. :P

Now, game developers, publishers, et al have the ammunition to call for some Commonsense Online Gaming Acts to prohibits pixelmen to frivolously sue them for adversely affecting children because it is the responsibilities of the parents. :D Maybe they are going to be called the Lootbox Acts? :P

28-Feb-2018 03:24:03 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2018 03:28:25 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Do you realize "bills" are not regulations? In the USA anybody can propose anything but bills are not LAWS or ACTS.

CEO of SE put up that single-player console game statement in responses to complaints on their MTX practiecs on their flagship multiplayer series FF and Dragon Quest.

Accusations on false advertisements or bait-and-switch practices have nothing to do with odds, let alone odds on lootboxes.

There are no loopholes in the Chinese Online Game Regulations. All they require the online gaming business people to abide to there are (1) their games must have real content, not just some Kickstarter initiatives, (2) they can't ignore customers, which means the games have to be supported and (3) Games of chance in the games must have content listed and odds revealed. Everybody is abiding to these laws, Steam included. In fact, Blizzard will also volunteer to reveal the odds of their Overwatch lootboxes soon in the West without anybody forcing them to. They have nothing to hide.

Again, what you think "right" or "wroong", fell "happy" or "sad" is not what this thread is about. And game developers still laugh their way to the bank and have
Happy Hour after Happy Hour
regardless what "you" (just a player) think as long as they are getting returns on their investments. :)

So people know who does ESRB stand behind and they still go there and get spanked? Funny that losers have no other mean to turn to. :D

Yes, the major "outlets" are all reporting Lootbox is not gambling. it is a
FUN
way to enjoy the game. It is just like the Baseball Cards that healthy sport fans have been collecting all the worlds for 100 years. Sure, parents should rejoice now since they will soon know lootboxes, MTX and subscription are all non-discriminating ways to support the game developers and they are all heathly. Yes, this is REAL and I 100% approve it, although ESRB is only a rating agency, not law makers. :D

28-Feb-2018 17:30:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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There are 1000s (e.g. up to date on this 115th Congress almost 8k Bills have been introduced) submitted in every 2 year Congress period. Do you know on the average only 3-4% of them are enacted? No business reacted to those >9000 DoA "bills". Only LAWS and ACTS matter.

SE (I believe what you wrote EA was a typo...) has been going on business as usual with their MTX and lootboxes game as service for months in FF and Dragon Quest since their directors and Mr. CEO first spoke in Nov 2017. Clearly their actions told what direction they are
happily
going. :)

FF is "never built on multiplayer"? I wonder why all those gamers called it a MMORPG. Even SE advertised the FF series as MMORPG.

Does the Right Hand of Justice spank drug dealers? Sure, they put them behind bars or in some cases in some countries like China, they can be sentenced to DEATH.
Does the Right Hand of Justice spank game developers for implementing MTX and lootboxes? The answer is clearly... muhahahahahahaha
:D

You are wrong that ESRB is "regulating" lootboxes. They are not government. They are just a self-regulating entity in the gaming business. They don't force anybody to abide to their rules because they are not laws. You can see that many game companies, Jagex included, don't have an ESRB rating because LAWS don't require that. Those who are jealous and/or in disagreement with ESRB's ratings are always free to form their own rating agency according to Uncle Sam's LAWS. But in the meantime EA was the first game developers to tweet their support on ESRB's new site moments after the ESRB president broke the news on their new parental guidance site. EA is so happy to raise their hand, and foot, to support ESRB and you guess what...
HAPPY HOUR, HAPPY HOUR
to them. :D

In game purchase including lootbox will be explained at: http://www.esrb.org/parentaltools/ soon.

01-Mar-2018 16:29:23 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2018 17:18:25 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL@"that these bills have very little opposition". All the game developers are already opposing them with ACTIONS in their games loudly. They keep adding not just more games of chance but games of chance within games of chance. Open you eyes and don't you see TH Promotion: Chaotic Tomes?
"These bills have very little support outside the forums"
. Now that's corrected for you. :D

EA never said anything about "game as service". SE mentioned that and their CEO kept reiterating their stance on MTX and loot boxes in their own games.

Trying to twist things certainly won't work as the world can see all these EA, SE, Jagex, Blizzard and those even their grandmothers may know are still
happily
selling lootboxes

Keep comparing FUN games to drug and other substances just won't make you go anywhere. Uh oh... too bad ESRB is out to to educate the parents on what in game purchases are. :D

Of course, MTX has to be treated the same as other in game purchase such as subscription, Premier Club, DLC expansion, etc. because you can't say game of chance is gambling if you pay for TH but it is not gambling if you pay for subscription. That's 100% totally completely absolutely ridiculous. LAWS must be equal to all people. Just some people pay subscription and think game of chance is good to them but if somebody pay with MTX the same game of chance becomes evil gambling won't make "laws"... except in their dreams. :(

ESRB is a monopoly? LOLx9000. I wonder who said they have powerful governments behind them... and they can't change that? There is antitrust law in the USA and ESRB is also non-profit. Monopoly doesn't exist in non-profit companies. :D:D

All the invisible government and laws just make all these game companies laugh happily to the bank. No wonder they have not just lootboxes but lootboxes inside lootboxes now. :D:D:D

02-Mar-2018 00:52:19 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2018 00:58:13 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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What all these companies do in their games clearly show what they endorse or don't. Don't we all see game of chance within game of chance in TH? Don't we all see how EA cheer their players with Happy Hour promotions? Don't we all see SE continue to have loot boxes? Don't we all see Blizzard telling their players to watch their fellow CoD players opening loot boxes in their new Multiplayer Social HQ? No need to twist words.
FACTS
speak louder than
THUNDER
.

Why are all these companies continue to put step up their loot box monetization practice in their games. Really
SIMPLE
!!! Faked "regulations" and used car salesmen turned "politicians" as well as Santa Claus and Bugs Buggy made them laugh so loud to the bank that they can't resist to put even more efforts to bring more
HAPPY HOURS
to their players. :D

Online games are not casinos or drug operations. Loot boxes are like Baseball Cards that gamers and collectors all over the world happily shared for like 100 years. Go cry a river if you want but if some pixel people and their invisible "powerful government friends" can't make their "ratings" visible to the REAL WORLD people then too bad to them. That's all I can say. :(

Subscription is obviously an in game purchase. Members get 2 free TH keys every day. Premier Club is another in game purchase. Gold Club member get 1 more free TH key. If TH is like a "casino" then subscription and Premier club also leads to "gambling" as much as MTX. In fact "in game purchase" should be the formal term for MTX... and that includes but not limited to subscription, add on services, skins, game of chance purchases etc. ESRB is absolutely spot on in their label. Don't agree? Too bad... either make your own rating agency, get better "powerful government friends", quit playing online games or just
ACCEPT THE FATE.
:D

02-Mar-2018 17:59:37

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I've never seen major game developers or publishers talking about "censorship" or "government regulations". NOTHING AT ALL. They are just doing business as usual. That's why when they want loot boxes in their games they put them there. They want more there, they put more there. They never even mentioned "invisible" governments because they just don't exist like Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny. They just laugh their way to their bank. Some day, they may even invite those "invisible governments", Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny all to their Multiplayer Social HQ to share the
FUN
of their real players opening loot boxes. :D

Subscription is "honest" purchase but other ways of paying for content is not? Extremely good joke that can only happen in the dreams of the fairies in a fairy tale. Jokes among jokes. Farce within farce. :D:D:D

When you pay for membership you also pay for a lot of games of chances besides TH. You pay for Babarian Assault GAMBLING, Duel Arena STAKING, clue scroll/Mccab rerolls among others. That's a lot more DISHONEST purchaes than just TH. If TH is labelled as an alcohol, so is subscripton. If TH is beer then subscription is Vodka. If these companies keep putting addicting subscription Vodka in their games, subscription needs to be regulated first because it keep luring players to DISHONEST ADDICTING things on a recurring basis.

Still talking about PHANTOM GOVERNMENTS and INVISIBLE REGULATIONS? Yes, right!!!
ACCEPT THE FATE
. Uh oh... they just don't exist. Loot boxes exist, de facto industry ratings exist but guess who don't exist just like Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny? :D

In the meantime, let me remind you in IRL in a game we called RS, you are in luck that this week you get a chance to have
FUN
opening loot box inside loot box.
TH PROMOTION: CHAOTIC TOMES
:D:D:D

03-Mar-2018 17:28:22

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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All the bigger game developers and publishers in the world have already shown their intentions to go on course with loot boxes through REAL WORLD ACTIONS clearly. Many even put more and more there with newer and newer initiatives. They don’t need any censorship. :)

ACTIONS speak louder than words and they laugh their way to the bank happily with such ACTIONS, not with symbolic phantom “censorship” that only forum whiners cry a river over. Players play games. They don’t play in forums. Who care about “censorship” anyway if the games are already there for them to enjoy? It is hilarious the “scared child” is putting loot boxes inside loot boxes and inviting players to earn rewards by watching other players opening loot boxes in the REAL WORLD? Perhaps the actual “scared children” are the babies crying over non-existing “censorship” in the forum? :O

No game developers advertise loot boxes as their major game content. They advertise their games and subscription. If there is anything about exploiting human psychology, they do that through buy-to-play and subscription.

In fact, in the REAL WORLD, even snake oil salesmen in politician outfits know when to back out to save their own feathers. That’s why when somebody could not answer why other forms of in game purchase such as subscription should be singled out in the “in game purchase” label, she changed her tone and said “Oh the in game purchase label is a good step forward, I get to go now. Let me go ask the stakeholders” and dashed straight to the door. Hilarious but at least she knew what’s at stake in the REAL WORLD. It is not a grade school debate where she could stomp her feet, cry to her mom and just quote some nonsense “regulations” that only exist in her pixel brain and yell only wise people could see the “regulations”.
It is her career to lose in the REAL WORLD
. O_o

04-Mar-2018 18:36:31 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 19:32:57 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Skills have nothing to do with gambling. Gambling can have and don’t have skills involved.

Raffle doesn’t require skill. Runescape has it in summer every year to members. Uh oh!!! That’s not “gambling”? Of course not because it is offered through subscription and subscription is holier than thou? Yes, right… only in the forums but not in the real world.

Gold Premier Club Vault also doesn’t require “skills” and I know of course it is different than TH although it also doesn’t require “skills” to the people in the forums just because it has subscription tied to it. Yes, subscription is the way, the truth and the life… but unfortunately again, this is only to the pixel men in the forums.

Jagex never even mentioned what and if RS Mobile will have loot boxes. If they do there is no big deal as they will just show the odds of them. Major game developers are not afraid of revealing the odds as they have been all happily showing such odds in China for 10 months now while they continued to reap in profits in titanic proportion. In fact, Blizzard is happy to even show the odds in the West voluntarily.

Actually, I support showing the odds of loot boxes although it is not a government regulation. But pixel men in the forums probably should prepare, if they have not known already, it won’t help them at all as
REAL WORLD facts do not show anything that affect loot boxes. People continue to buy loot boxes all over the worlds, with or without the odds shown. Sorry, that won’t save their pixel world at all.
:(:(:(

04-Mar-2018 18:43:29 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 18:51:11 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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IGDA holds a discussion in every GDC, not “major game developers”.

IGDA is a self-regulation non-profit organization consists of >9000 developers all over the world, mostly indie and Kickstarter developers. Who are the “major game developers” crying over there? I don’t see Jagex there for sure. In fact, year after year, the participants have been mostly forum people, “journalists” and students, hardly any game developers themselves, let alone “major game developers”. Major game developers go to gaming convention to present their plans and showcase their products. They walk the walk, not talk the talk.

You are also willfully blind if you think the IGDA presentation of the so called “censorship” is all about loot boxes. They are talking about many different things within the gaming industries, such as freedom of speech and religious censorship of some countries against the gaming communities. I guess the community of certain games are still butt hurt they are being totally blocked out by the Chinese Government. They are also going to talk about other organizations attacking the gaming industry as a whole, not specific to loot boxes. They condemned the WHO’s attempt to associate gaming, READ THAT CLEARLY, all gaming practices, not just loot boxes, to mental health.

How come no more “powerful government” crying in the REAL WORLD any more if that IGDA presentation in GDC means so much? I have a suggestion for them if they want to bring that up. They better put a pillow in their pants first because the spanking will be much harder. :D

Subscription is even worse than buying pixels once at a time. It is a recurring practice aiming to lure people to the game. If a single time purchase of a TH key is evil, then a recurring monthly subscription that lures players to TH EVERYDAY is 9000 times more evil. In fact, if TH is gambling, gambling with one or 9000 keys or with the 2 keys daily have no difference. Whatever way you get the keys, you are still the gambler.

05-Mar-2018 16:34:21 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2018 17:24:13 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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It is simply hilarious to state subscription doesn’t require money. When you pay with subscription, you still pay with real money, the
SAME REAL MONEY
that you buy TH keys with.

Let me remind you the Runescape franchise is going to be offered in China later. They will release the odds of the loot boxes there because of the Chinese regulation anyway. They won’t have a problem doing the same with Mobile or whatever. In fact, Jagex is already voluntarily showing odds of drops of various items in the games. They are not TH items yet, but you bet they have plans to show odds of TH items soon.

Nobody really care about the actual odds of items anyway. It is the quality of the games that draw players. When these players are happy with the games, they pay for virtual goods, loot boxes items included. Major companies such as Blizzard, EA, Steam have all shown the odds of their loot boxes in China for 10 months and people just don’t care how "low" the odds of certain items are. The same major companies also have no problem revealing the same odds in Apple Store, and the same
Happy Hour results
whatsoever.

The top prizes of Baseball Cards are very low too but people still buy them even they know it is grossly against the odds for them to win the better cards. Loot boxes are just as
FUN
as Baseball Cards. Too bad if some pixel men don’t agree with the
REAL WORLD ESRB actions,
but in the real world, players pay for
FUN
of the game, not for some pixels they can’t even take out of the game, so
odds are not really relevant
.

05-Mar-2018 16:38:51 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2018 17:27:25 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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GDC already announced the schedule. Jagex is not presenting there and not mentioned anywhere in the representative list. Jagex doesn’t even mention anything about GDC on any of their sites. You know what oxymoron means? Hint hint… something like “Heck
I am sure
even Jagex
will probably
send reps too”.

Of course, nobody should be concerned in China, the sole country that has online game regulations,
read that again please, they are online game regulations, not loot box regulations
. The reason is simple, everybody there is making huge money. It is lost clause to the pixel people who can’t live to see big companies making big money with or without regulations but
Happy Hour
day after day for real world companies. :D

Yes, the “stakeholders” have concerns on loot boxes only, but when smart politicians know they have struck out they would just deflect the questions to the “stakeholders”. Translation: we are just the messengers, not the stakeholders, don’t kill us. Yes, you have undeniable good points and made a good step forward. “ :D

Everything that requires real world money follows the same real world guidelines. There is no difference between paying $100 to buy TH keys or memberships that give you 2 TH keys per days plus numerous other games of chance in the game.
If there is anything that needs to be added perhaps there should be a new label “This game contains subscription, a monthly recurring payment”
. Look how it backfires again if dreamers and their Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny friends still don’t get it. :D:D:D

06-Mar-2018 17:51:15

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Battlefront 2 doesn’t have loot box now. Of course, there is no odds to reveal. Blizzard said they have no problems revealing loot box odds. They’ll start with Overwatch. It is up to Bungie who owns the Destiny titles to decide what to do in the West, regardless, they are already following every lootbox guide line in China. Everybody is making huge months the last 10 months in China with or without loot boxes in their games.

Why should people care about whether there are loot box in the games? They come to play the game as advertised, they don’t come to a game just to open loot boxes. If they want to spend on loot boxes, so be it but otherwise they can just ignore them. I know some people will cry pay-to-win but
unfortunately in the real world laws don't prohibit "pay-to-win"
. :D

The whole gaming industry is happily making huge money all over the worlds, with or without revealing odds of loot boxes,
with or without any online game regulations, read that again, they are online game regulations, not loot box regulations.
Only Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny don’t see that but insist on blowing thin air on
non-existing USA loot box “regulations”
instead.

I don’t call loot box
FUN
. ESRB did. UK Gambling Commission did. Too bad if you don’t like it. Regardless though, real people still pour in real money in the real world for the
FUN
. So real world investors get real world money return on their real world investments. Real world employees get their real world paychecks. Real world game players get their real world games to have
FUN
with. Of course that’s all good to them because without their jobs they may have to eat at soup kitchens. Without games to play, they may have to spend all their time whining in forums and blogs about how greedy and unfair these game companies are making huge money.

06-Mar-2018 17:58:04 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 18:02:28 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Revial said:
In China, you must display the odds of your in-game gambling systems so players know what they are getting into and whether they want to participate.

Just a counter to the whole "you don't need to know" attitude that allows developers to ruin video games with MTX.


Online game companies
in CHINA
are required to reveal odds of games of chance in their games, true. But no game companies have any problems showing such odds there, Jagex's parent company, Fukong included. Every company including Blizzard and EA have been reaping in huge profits there as seen by their publicly released financial reports. People still buy game of chance items within games even with the regulation to reveal their odds in China.

Don't take words out of context. I don't mean all players in different places of the world don't "need to know odds of the loot box". If regulations require the companies doing business in some place requires these companies to reveal odds, the companies have to. Even if they are no government regulation but private business practice can also set up transparency requirements to their clients/patrons.

There are no such government requirements in the USA for any online games to reveal the odds of their game of chance. So nobody are forced to reveal such odds although some of the companies still reveal them voluntarily.

In some businesses such as Baseball Cards, companies like Topps and Upper Deck have been known to reveal the odds of the boxes for like half a century. The odds for getting the rare cards are very low, but there have always been plenty of buyers like they don't care about the odds. They know the odds are low but they still buy like they don't care or don't need to know the odds. Same story with the success of loot boxes in China despite of the regulation for companies to release the odds.

06-Mar-2018 22:54:15 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 22:57:03 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The really ridiculous one is the person who keep seeing things like “major companies” not doing their business as usual. Jagex doesn’t care about GDC, none of the other major companies even mention anything about GDC, not even loot box, since they last spoke 4 months ago.

Nobody is “fighting” online game regulations in China there. Nobody even mentioned it there. They don’t have any problems at all. They are all laughing their way to the bank. They are all happy to show the odds of loot boxes there. Perhaps only Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny and the likes are seeing them “fighting” anything or "cutting their losses". IRL, all the major game companies such as Blizzard and EA have been happily reporting record sales. :D

Perhaps Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny are seeing the “undenial doom”? Uh oh. I don’t see anything. I don’t even see Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny… Hmm… perhaps I am just not one of those wise people who can see Santa and Bugs. But in the real world, everybody is prospering in China under the online game regulations. Sorry Santa and Bugs… :D

TH is one of the features players can enjoy under the subscription program. TH is not equivalent to subscription. TH and subscription all use the same money, both real currency and virtual currencies. Games are not addicting, TH is not addicting, subscription is not addicting. No real world evidence has proved anything. Players are not gaining any real money from online games because they can’t be taken out of the game and legally have no real world values. The real laws know these facts. Politicians, both real and faked ones all know that. Only Santa, Bugs Bunny et al don't know it because they only see invisible “regulations”. Too bad for Santa and Bugs, they can’t even sue in real world since they don’t have a physical address in the real world. They can’t even go to court. They can’t be served. :D:D:D

07-Mar-2018 18:47:18 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2018 18:49:15 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I don’t hate subscription. I don’t hate MTX, TH or any form of payments. I just don’t hate the players who pay more than me. It simply doesn’t bother me because I come to a game to play my game, not to whine at other people paying more than me. These are all the same legitimate payment options that keep a game afloat so I can have a game to play and their employees have a job. If you insist that subscription is holier than MTX, you better prepare to be really disappointed because IRL they are all in game purchases unless you love to see labels like “this game contains monthly recurring subscription, parents beware!!!”. :D

Battlefront 2 simply doesn’t have loot box now. There is nothing to reveal. You are simply barking up the wrong tree if you have to ask for the odds. If EA put loot box there in the future you may want to know the odds then but not now and who told you even if EA put loot box back in BF2 they won’t tell you the odds? Santa and Bugs Bunny? As for Destiny, it is not just up to Blizzard to reveal the odds. It is Bungie’s game officially. Either party has no problem following the rule in China though. It is just a matter whether they will reveal the odds in the West and when. There is no regulation anywhere outside China that requires them to reveal the odds anyway. Sorry again, Santa and Bugs!

Kids can use their parent’s credit cards to buy everything. It doesn’t limit to games. It is simply nonsense to even link this to games. Good thing is ESRB has a parental website to educate the parents about in game purchases. Real world government also have similar websites to educate everybody, not just parents and kids, about real world purchases. Santa and Bugs don’t use these sites or they don’t see them? Too bad Santa and Bugs, you need glasses. :D

07-Mar-2018 18:53:26 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2018 19:30:25 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I use TH just because it is there for me as part of the game features. I don’t come to RS to play TH, I come to RS to play the game of RS. TH doesn’t need to be fun to me for me to play RS. TH is free to me anyway. It is free to most players. To them "why not? it is free!". :D

The really immature people are those who keep quoting non-existing government regulations that even the “powerful governments behind them” run away from. The real fact remains everybody is doing business as usual. If they want loot boxes, they put loot boxes in their games. There is nothing Santa and Bugs can do. :D

Hey Santa and Bugs Bunny? What TH promotions do you like more? Chaotic Tomes, Hydra Lamps or BXP:Time to Train?
:D

07-Mar-2018 18:57:38

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Maybe there will be one Jagex employee in GDC this year but look things up first. Nobody from any major companies will be presenting anything related to loot boxes. Simply linking unrelated events up doesn't mean a thing.

Can’t you read the “?”. I raised a question on your comment that some companies are fighting “the government regulations”. I meant NOBODY Is fighting their regulations because they knew, were and are happy to reveal the odds of their loot boxes there. There is nothing to “fight” because the regulations don’t bother them. Who are the companies “cutting their losses there”. Tell us and show us the REAL WORLD financial data? Who said that? Santa and Bunny?

All the ATVI titles are doing well. Even WoW, one of the weakest one are still doing good. EA’s sport tiles are all making huge money. Only the Bioware ones are sinking because of their lousy poor community in the West.

Still crying “regulations”? There are none. There simply don’t exist. Even the little boy who believe in Santa and Easter/Bugs Bunnies only cried wolves 3 times. Keep crying “regulations” 9000 times don’t make them exist. It only make people laugh.

You get TH keys from subscription. The real money you pay for subscription is also the same real money you buy keys with. There is no difference. Rich people can buy 9000 keys but so what? They are rich and too bad if you are not. What’s the problem? Rich people can spend their money non-stop to buy different things, including garbage they don’t even look at. What’s the problem? It is their money. They can use it in whatever way. They can buy 9000 mil shares of 9000 different stocks. They can buy 9000 hamburgers and just throw them away. They can buy 9000 baseball game tickets but don’t go to a game even once. Who can say these rich people are “addictive” to stocks, hamburgers or baseball games? They are just rich people. They are not addicts.

08-Mar-2018 19:20:52

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Still fantasizing about “powerful governments”? All I see are some failed ones who admitted ESRB made a GOOD STEP with their in game purchase label and parental guidance site. Nothing else have they done and in fact nobody has heard from them since then. Regarding the ESRB actions, I said it 9000 times if you don’t like what they are going to do with the in game purchase label and website, go make your own rating agency. ESRB already said that’s all they are going to do and so be it. You don’t even have to use their ratings and websites if you don’t want to or don’t agree with them. Crying about their First Amendment right is useless and no governments, Santa or Bugs Bunny can even help you with that whatsoever.

If you insist EA still has “loot boxes” in BF2 and demand them to reveal the odds, why don’t you ask every game to reveal the odds of all games of chances? What’s the odds of getting a huge lamp in RS’s Gold Member Premier Club Valut? You are just stretching things to different areas. Games of chance is in every game. Paying a subscription or Premier club don’t make them anything different than TH or loot boxes elsewhere.

I am a Jagex fanboy? I said everything Jagex doing is good? Go read my posts first? I criticized them most of the time. Just the past couple of days, I put up yawning remarks on recycled events such as Spring Fayre, and joked about the ugliness of the Kings and Queens outfits. I even said Runescape is not competitive against modern games and predicted the demise of the current versions of RS in 5 years. I am a fanboy with such remarks? Good joke.!!!

Perhaps you are just a troll so whenever you see some posts not attacking Jagex then you think other people are fanboys. I am not going to talk more on this “fanboy” nonsense since this is not even a place for such nonsense. Please stop calling people names, that all and the last time I want to say in that aspect.

08-Mar-2018 19:24:01 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 19:26:51 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Your “regulations” still don’t exist no matter what. That’s why everybody is still putting up loot boxes among other things in their games. It is all business as usual to them. Nothing you can do sorry, maybe you can go tell Santa and Bugs Bunny to play TH: Double Dragon God Chest. :D:D:D

08-Mar-2018 19:24:40 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 19:26:05 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Look things up first, Cornor Crowley is going to make a presentation on Future and Culture of the game industry in this GDC 2018. Nobody said anything about loot box.

The censorship discussion in GDC is not new. In fact, there have been censorship discussions more than 10 years ago. "Censorship" in games has always been the regular topic in GDC year after year, not just "loot boxes". But too bad to Santa and Bugs Bunny perhaps, because the “censorship” topics they discussed were on numerous different issues ranging from freedom of speech to sexual and violence content. These were just a few of the “censorship topics” people in the game industry talked about in GDC’s early years:


http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/27/gdc09-attorney-discusses-top-censorship-issues-facing-industry
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/03/27/games-under-fire-over-political-correctness-warns-free-speech-lawyer
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6206796.html

Coverage of Mr. Walters Speech at the Game Developers Conference (2008)

You really should read the link about “governments” this and that. There is nothing new. It is all about the editor of that article’s own opinion. In fact, although he is obviously against loot box, he realized and admitted past ordinance in the REAL WORLD suggested they will fail badly:

“I still think he (Lee) and his colleagues face a steep challenge, because it can still be argued they’re seeking to regulate content, and video game publishers won big against that effort in 2011 when the Supreme Court threw out a California law and found video games to be protected works of free expression.”


Note that Governments can’t regulate video game content and that’s from the Supreme Court. It is final! Now that we see what are real world laws and regulations and what are pipedreams of Santa and Bugs.
:D:D

09-Mar-2018 19:00:54 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 19:02:32 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Real money is still real money. Monopoly money is still Monopoly money. Laws don’t outcast money “that is used to skip content”. Money that is “used to skip content” is not more evil than money that is used to pay for subscription. Sorry Santa and Bugs. :)

Quoting a letter from an anonymous user to a forum/blog is a “proof” of addiction? Good joke!!! Let me tell you what… in real life people have sued different business sectors for addictions but nobody has won. In fact, once McDonald's was sued for their fast foods are too addictive that cause people to become obese. Of course you should know Big Mac won... but that's not the end of the story because it backfired. A couple of years later, the food and beverage industry forced the government to enact the Commonsense Consumption Acts, or better known as the Cheeseburger Acts in half of the USA. Consider in the game industry we have ESRB and the parental guidance site but in the food and beverage industry we don't even have any rating agency, game players are already much better educated and protected than food "addicts". Well, I don't think I need to explain what is Commonsense...:D

BTW, that anonymous “addict” cried about microtransactions in his “letter”, not specifically loot box.

I don’t know why you are arguing with real world financial reports. EA is notorious for its EA Sports division with Baseball Card-like “loot boxes” infused for like an eternity but they made huge money year after year. Why are people still paying them money if they hate loot box so much?

ATVI’s financial report shows even more evidence people still give Blizzard lots and lots of money despite of all the loot boxes in almost all of their games now. This is ATVI’s official financial report:
http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=1056935

It is obvious they used the word
“record”
more than 20 times.

09-Mar-2018 19:13:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jagex’s Crowley had been in a few GDC presentations before. This year is not his first. He talked about the game industry as a whole mostly from the academic and cultural standpoints, not for any kind of censorships, rights, never MTX, let alone loot box.

Just one of the many topics in the IGDA conference is about loot box doesn’t mean it is a key issue. IGDA covers all the issues their >9000 members face. They have been doing that for >10 years. Look for them to talk a lot about foreign affairs in the “censorship” area, particularly about the Chinese Blockage on some communities such as Steam although it has been all systems go and full sail ahead to all the foreign game developers there.
“Censorship” in other countries will be the focal point of the whining game community people but the developers there don’t care as long as they are given a full go ahead PASS.


Guns and violence in video games are definitely 9000 times more problematic than loot boxes in the games. That’s why we see President Trump getting involved in that issue a lot lately.
How come you don’t see Trump talking about loot boxes if they are so bad
? The government’s priority is extremely obvious. By government, I mean the actual decision makers of the countries USA, not the ones who submit >9000 bills a year. :D

“Loot boxes on the other hand well they have the very science that created them against them.”
What does this sentence mean? What “science”?


I never said Chris Lee or whoever faked their Bills.
But I have mentioned 9000 times that Bills are not LAWS.
There are over 9000 Bills submitted every year but only about 3% of them eventually get enacted years, or in some cases, over a decade later. Nobody said they can’t try but at least some of the more ethical and knowledgeable journalists are already chanting “doomy doom… doomy doom”. :D:D:D

10-Mar-2018 19:44:20

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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In fact, I said it 9000 times that the USA is so democratic it allows everybody to try to make/change laws and I encouraged them to. However, no business will change the way they operate based on non-existing laws and acts. Let me reiterate in case if you still don't see... bills are not LAWS or ACTS.

The very same “reputable” sources on your list such as PCGamers and RollingStone unamimously put headlines like “Loot boxes aren't going away, GDC survey says” in their articles covering GDC 2018.
:D

If you think subscription is better than loot boxes, you don’t have to buy loot boxes but Laws will never say the same thing unfortunately to you. Just never! :D

I can show you 9000 parents complaining about their kids using their credit cards to buy things in not just games but also different products such as a boy bought a game console for $7500 on eBay with his father’s credit card and a 14 month old baby bought a car using his father’s cell phone. I can show you 9000 “addicts” confessed they spent >$9000 on different things such as garments and food. I can even show you their REAL WORLD NAMES that they released to the REAL WORLD newspaper, TV and radio reporters. But does it mean a thing? Does it mean eBay and all these car, garment and food companies have to be regulated when just one customer complains about their underaged kids or “addict self” wasted money on their products?

There are FDA requirements on foods and drugs to reveal their ingredients. Ketchup makers have to follow that guideline too but it is never McDonald’s responsibilities. Nobody can sue Big Mac if they have a problem with the Ketchup, they have to sue the Ketchup makers. Fatty foods or not, it is commonsense. Big Mac is protected by the Cheeseburger Acts. They don’t even have to put a “this Big Mac contains fatty components” label on their Super Value Meals.

10-Mar-2018 19:47:27

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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In video games, ESRB is already there to give the customers guidance of the games on top of their commonsense. They have done a lot more than the food and beverage sector. If you don’t like ESRB, too bad. I said it 9000 times already, go make your own rating agency because nobody can undermine ESRB's First Commandment right. But rest assured, either you ignore or don’t use the ESRB guidelines, it doesn’t mean it is not there. Its labels are on the boxes and websites of many video games everywhere. Don't say your kids buy online game products because either either they or you or both are ignorant and lack of commonsense. :D

ATVI and EA are both making huge bank with loot boxes. Whether you like it or not it won’t make a difference because they hardly care about your $15 subscription as they get a lot of >$9,000 MTX purchases from >9000 players. :D

10-Mar-2018 19:50:30 - Last edited on 10-Mar-2018 19:59:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Apple has some regulations for lootboxes on their app store now.

Guess we won't be seeing RS3 mobile on iphones for a while. ;)


Nothing except showing the odds of the games of chance. No big deal actually. Major companies like Blizzard, EA and Steam all have no problem with it since they have also no problem whatsoever with revealing the odds in China for 10 months now.

Don't worry about Mobile since Jagex has to reveal the odds of TH and everything similar in China too when they officially start selling their franchise titles there. They will just reveal the odds like what have done to the boss/skilling pets and items drop rates.

It RS goes to China first, they reveal the odds there first. If Mobile comes first, they reveal the odds to Apple. Either way, not even an issue. It is just a matter of when and which one comes first. :D

11-Mar-2018 18:58:35 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 19:30:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Swift Punch1 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
OP, none of your "regulations" are true. Nobody has submitted anything. They were all talks and nothing at all. That's why nobody can even tell WHAT EXACTLY THOSE "BILLS" ARE.

There is also no lootbox regulation anywhere in the world except China. But perhaps to your disappointment, no gambling or age are even mentioned in the Chinese lootbox regulation because it is not gambling. There is only 1 regulation in the Chinese lootboxes, i.e., transparency of the content. Nothing else there.

No game developers and publishers in the world will do anything because they are not required to.


Theres currently 11 states with submitted bills for review so... :) the more you know.


There are 9000 bills submitted every year for review but only 3% of them eventually getting enacted and they don't become effective years from that point... The more you know. :D:D:D

11-Mar-2018 19:00:35

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Swift Punch1 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
In video games, ESRB is already there to give the customers guidance of the games on top of their commonsense. They have done a lot more than the food and beverage sector. If you don’t like ESRB, too bad. I said it 9000 times already, go make your own rating agency because nobody can undermine ESRB's First Commandment right. But rest assured, either you ignore or don’t use the ESRB guidelines, it doesn’t mean it is not there. Its labels are on the boxes and websites of many video games everywhere. Don't say your kids buy online game products because either either they or you or both are ignorant and lack of commonsense. :D

ATVI and EA are both making huge bank with loot boxes. Whether you like it or not it won’t make a difference because they hardly care about your $15 subscription as they get a lot of >$9,000 MTX purchases from >9000 players. :D


Idk how miserable of a human being you must be to be happy about that.


As a consumer, I receive more free information from ESRB's new label and website. Nothing bad at all.

As an investor, I receive more return on my investments on the appreciation of ATVI and EA stocks.

Miserable? I don't know who is miserable... the companies that make money which in turn make their employees and more importantly investors happy? Or the ones who don't make money and have to fire their employees and see their friends eating in soup kitchens? :D:D:D

11-Mar-2018 19:04:10

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jagex said it already TH is important for their business and will continue to stay. They said it twice, not just once. When they said it once twice, they said it a two million times. Crowley is unlikely to say anything about TH or lootbox because that’s not his prerogative with his company anyway. But even if mentions it, that will only mean Jagex said the same
TH as usual
3 million times.

I don’t ignore the lootbox bullet in the IGDA agenda, but it is just one of the bullets among a lot of areas regarding CENSORSHIP.

Whether guns and violence are related to video games is a mood point but Trump is definitely going banana over this issue and obviously loot box draws a blank in his brain.

Not just people related to the gambling industry called loot box not gambling. The UK Parliament said it is not gambling. The Chinese Ministry of Culture declared it not gambling through their Online Game Regulations that have gone effective May 2017. The New Zealand Government’s Department of Internal Affairs said it is not gambling. Those are the supreme government powers in their respective countries. They stand to gain nothing from gambling or online games in the private sectors.

I never said Chris Lee faked any BILLS.
I said some people tried to fake the “bills” into NON-EXISTING LAWS and ACTS
. 9000 bills are submitted every year in the USA but only 3% of the pass and become effective years later. Of course, all the people who submit those 9000 bills every year “believe” they will pass or else they won’t send them but the reality is 97% of them don’t.

Australia did not declare loot box “gambling”. Some people just twisted some words from some activist communities. Why is everybody still selling loot boxes in Australia? It is obvious because it is not illegal. Runescape runs in Australia too and they have TH. Why doesn’t anybody report Jagex to the Australian governments?

11-Mar-2018 19:10:26

Dilbert2001

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Those 11% of the developers with loot boxes in their games translated to almost 500 companies. A lot of the 4500+ “developers” answered in the survey don’t even start to sell games. Of course, Kickstarter developers don’t sell loot boxes or even so nobody will buy. Most of the games are also console, particularly single-player console games. MTX, let alone loot boxes, are unlikely to make a lot of money for the developers since there are no or very few pay-to-win elements in such games. Almost 500 developers are selling loot boxes? That's more than I can even think of. I can't even put up the names of 100 developers after playing games for 20 years.

The most interesting notes among those developers who plan to implement loot boxes in their games are “they're necessary to ensure the continued stability of the industry”, “straight-up game sales are often not enough to enable the development of games that people want to play. That, in turn, could have a detrimental effect on the industry as a whole”, “Microtransactions have to be a part of your strategy in triple-A gaming". So everyone will need to figure out what works for them”.

The common belief of these developers are (1) The gaming industry need loot box, their employees need them to keep their jobs, not just the greedy developers and (2) subscription is not enough to keep a game afloat… and it is further supported by the whopping 9% decrease of subscription revenue of the industry last month according to SuperData Research.

Kids and even babies can use their parents’ cell phones and credit cards to buy different things. It is ridiculous to make new regulations on everything they buy each time when a “complaint” surfaces. It is not even something logical and possible for the governments to act on. Regulate bubble gum if one of the kids gets caught buying gums with his mom’s credit card? It is hilarious. :D:D:D

11-Mar-2018 19:14:47 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 19:36:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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It doesn’t have to be McDonald’s. All companies have to provide what’s on their “menu”. If they say 3 packs of ketchups in the meal they need to have 3 packs of ketchups there. If they don’t mentions ketchups at all they don’t have to give any ketchups, even one free pack of ketchup is an extra bonus to the customer. “Sanitation” requirements also don't apply to McDonald’s alone. All companies in different sectors have to follow the same guidelines. Online games, say, Runescape doesn’t list any “ketchup” in their “menu”. I believe they all abide to the same “sanitation” government provisions in their REAL WORLD workspace. There have absolutely no problems.

Again, if you don’t like ESRB, go make your own rating agency and if you are not powerful enough, too bad. There is nothing to argue actually. It is ESRB’s First Amendment right that can’t be undermined. You have your own constitutional rights too. You can try to put your own rating label on the boxes of all the games and you can set up your own website to give a “F” rating to all games with loot boxes.

If you think EA and ATVI are being less aggressive on loot boxes then good for you. I believe others don’t really care though since even ATVI doesn’t care about their “less aggressive” approach on loot boxes in their newly founded CoD Multiplayer Headquarters. They invite you to do their in game mission content to watch other players opening loot boxes. EA simply doesn’t even care about the Star War titles any more. Those worrying about them putting loot boxes back to BF2 better worry about whether they will still see their Star War titles running next year. Of course they don’t care about players leaving the games because internally they don’t even want to run them. They have EA Sports among other highly profitable games with loot boxes and other MTX that their players spend their
Happy Hours
on. :D:D:D

11-Mar-2018 19:18:47 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 19:40:18 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Swift Punchi, you certainly did not look at all the posts.

On Page 6, post 2, I wrote

Back to the most important regulation "issue"... If there are going to be such days when laws do not respect Jagex's way to support their employees and shareholders through Games of Chance and such, I believe Jagex will still respect such "regulation" and just move onto other places of the worlds that respect their services and welcome them with open arms. Fortunately to many, I think I will see Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny before the days of such "regulations". :)


I answered the question already. Jagex is a UK based company, not a USA company. They have very limited exposure to USA laws. They can simply move their servers outside the USA if there is a need. It will still be business as usual.

What you call "spam after spam" were my replies to other user's "spam after spam". If you look at all the posts, nobody has answered the original question indeed. You certainly did not read all the posts.

Did I answer your question? Perhaps you should take a minute and ask exactly the same question with the same comment to the other commenters
including yourself
on this thread. Thanks.

Besides, bro, I still don't see your answer to OP's "simple question" in the 3 posts. Do you care to share your answer with us?

11-Mar-2018 23:33:31 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 23:58:32 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL. Wait until any country changed their LAWS first. Otherwise every company will just sell loot box at their own will. Everybody needs to ABIDE TO LAWS, not the 9000 proposals or comments from politicians, forumers and bloggers. :D

Just because one bullet in the entire GDC 2018, IGDA roundtable discussion is a titanic issue? Well, everybody can have their comment anyway. That’s all I want to say.

When a company can make more money from loot boxes they will sell them because it is extra money. Subscription is failing anyway. They will be making less money from subscription and this money has to be made up from more MTX sales. Loot boxes is a key element. For instance, loot boxes contributed 25% to Bliizard’s total revenue last quarter according to the stock exchanges and ATVI’s official financial report. Subscription, licensing and such only gave Blizzard less than 50% of their revenue.

Most companies don’t worry about loot boxes hurting their profits from subscription anyway, Jagex included. According to Fukong, Jagex’s parent’s report to the shareholders and the Shanghai Stock Exchange, they expected both MTX, subscription, active player bases to continue to glow in the year ahead. For instance, they expected active player count to grow from the current 723k to >750k and they will take in 15% more money. This is the official report:
https://doc.morningstar.com/Document/0a6823db914df5f615896abbddd2ef01.msdoc/original?clientid=globaldocuments&key=52dbc583e1012395
It was also posted and partially translated to English in Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/77uptr/according_to_shanghai_fukongs_financial/
Obviously, the sky is not falling. If they can get more money from both lootbox/MTX and subscription all at the same time, of course they will continue to do that because they are not idiots, and more importantly, their shareholders don’t allow them to be idiots
.

12-Mar-2018 18:43:38

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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How Trump does in guns and violence in online games is, again, a mood point. The key point pertaining to loot box is he is mum and his brain is totally blank. The actual top USA governments officials simply don’t care about loot box.

The fact revolving Chris Lee’s proposals remains they are not LAWS. No matter how people twist things, there are no USA LAWS regarding loot boxes. No companies need to do anything… and guess what? Nobody is doing anything. :D

Jagex needs to abide to UK Laws, not Santa or Bugs Bunny’s. No matter how people twisted words and articles, loot boxes remain not gambling and unregulated in the UK per their Parliament.

The official words from Australia’s eSafety Commission are:
Gambling involves the risk of losing something of value (in most cases money) for the chance of winning a prize (of monetary or some other value). This opportunity to stake, win and lose real money is what differentiates gambling from online gaming. While there are many types of online games, when gambling elements exist within a game the distinction between gaming and gambling is not always clear.


They never said loot box is gambling and they also put all kinds of in game purchases such as skins and items obtainable from playing the games with subscription there too. They simply said game of chances have some elements that can be associated with gambling but they can't declare them gambling. They also said research study shows “gambling” in online games can actually help children to stay away from real world gambling because “It can act as a substitute, reducing their interest in real gambling.

Everybody can check that out from their official government website: https://www.esafety.gov.au/education-resources/iparent/staying-safe/online-gambling

Uh oh… Perhaps Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny are sad now because the Australian Government actually said “gambling” in online games can actually be good for children. :D:D:D

12-Mar-2018 18:49:21 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2018 18:56:02 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Who care if the 500 developers with loot boxes in their game are “minority” or “majority” when the others have not even released their games. The fact remains a lot of developers don’t care about loot box “regulations” or hot air. Those who don’t like loot boxes can go play the Kickstarter games that perhaps won’t be released before people actually see Santa and Bugs Bunny IRL… or just play single player games where pay-to-win is simply a silly idea.

If the issue is “kids don’t know how money works”, then the issue should be solved with guidance on how money works, absolutely not anything on loot box, cars, garments, bubble gums or anything you can think of. It is extremely obvious one can’t simply demand loot boxes to be regulated just because kids can buy them with their parent’s money. Nobody can single out loot box if the same kids can buy candies, cars, food, online game subscription etc with the same money..

You certainly don’t understand what are required by LAWS to be shown to customers in the entertainment industry. Your TV and radio programs are always subject to change. Laws don’t require them to tell you how many hours of news, advertisements, sports events, movies, etc . It is up to them to create their own content. Likewise, Laws can’t dictate how another form of entertainments we call online games produce their products. Even in the case of ketchups and McDonald’s, if McDonald’s don’t mention ketchups at all, they have no obligation to even give their customers any free ketchup, let alone showing how many they can get.

Again regarding your comments on ESRB and how “bad” companies like ATVI and EA are, it won’t do a thing to them since you are not Law, nowhere close to be Law indeed. They don’ t have to even listen to you. The only thing you can do to help yourself is to make yourself influential. If you can’t, my comment is still the same TOO BAD.. :(:(:(

12-Mar-2018 18:52:11

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Perhaps you should wait until at least one of those Bills or comments from forumers/bloggers from your reputable sources actually turn into LAWS before you can even stop all the real world game companies from laughing. :D

The fact is they won’t do a thing. Some of them have said it once 5 months ago, so they have said it a million times. Don’t expect to hear from them anymore, perhaps except from some loud mouths like Jeff Kaplan who kept telling people Blizzard don’t respond to toxic people. They put them in the dog house. :D:D:D

Subscription in the game industry is falling while spending in the same industry grew 11%. Jagex is actually doing better than the world or Fukong is predicting they will be doing better than the market.

Source: SuperData Research:
https://www.superdataresearch.com/us-digital-games-market/

Worldwide digital spending grew 11% in January year over year. Gamers spent $8.9B billion digitally on games across all platforms in January. Continuing their decline, the Social and Pay-to-Play MMO segments shrank 5% and 9%, respectively. The Premium PC segment grew 24%, while the digital console market grew a staggering 57% year-over-year. Console’s fantastic growth was due in part to the success of Monster Hunter: World and the triple-A slate released during the holidays. Mobile and Free-to-Play MMO segments continued to grow, 11% and 1%, respectively.


You see the “scale of TH” is dropping? That’s good to you then. I still see the same TH promotions, plus Jagex is actually putting more new “gambling” within “gambling” initiatives into TH and you can win 10x the prizes now. Nothing has changed. I still see all the complaints in every promotion. :D:D:D

13-Mar-2018 18:22:33

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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There are always politicians submitting their 9000 proposals every year. They will have to look busy or else they don’t get any donations and supports for their political campaigns. Not that they are not doing anything but in fact they are always doing “something” - throwing 9000 "bills" to the wall, every one of them.
However, the actual decision makers in the White House, Capital Hill and such are not even thinking loot box, not even a yawn
. :|

VCGLR actually only gave their definition of “gambling” by the definition of the Victorian Legislation, however, the part you omitted from the follow up letter by the same VCGLR staff was, “Gambling isn’t necessarily Unauthorised gambling so there are a lot of variables at play”. VCGLR actually said gambling in Australia under the definition of the Vicotorian Legislation doesn’t means real world illegal gambling in Australia.


The Australian eSafety Commission actually gave a similar guidance on their site. eSafety also said in game purchases in online games may lead to features with “elements that normally associate with gambling” but they may not be actually real world illegal gambling. In short, they called it “simulated gambling” which can actually help the children to stay away from real world illegal gambling.

I gave you the link already. It is on their permanent Australian government website, not from the letter of an employee in response to a forum user’s unrevealed letter. Here is the link again:

https://www.esafety.gov.au/education-resources/iparent/staying-safe/online-gambling

And this is the remark that they instruct the parents on “stimulated gambling” and “real world gambling”:

Games that simulate a gambling activity are easily accessible through mobile apps and social media sites and can expose your child to a realistic gambling experience at a very young age.

13-Mar-2018 18:29:32 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 19:08:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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However, a recent study suggests that for some children, playing social casino games leads to an increase in gambling activity, possibly because these games normalise gambling for them or inflate their confidence of winning in a real gambling scenario. While for other children, it can act as a substitute, reducing their interest in real gambling.



It is clear the Aussie government has distinguished between "simulated gambling" in online games and real world illegal gambling from their official government site. And they even mentioned research study showed "simulated gambling" may even help children to stay away from REAL GAMBLING.

Read the GDC loot box survey again, almost 500 developers replied with a YES to loot box, not 500 games. EA, Blizzard and such all count as 1 response each. They are scaling back loot box? I see them promoting more on CoD, Hearthstone, FIFA etc. :D:D:D

Why don’t parent do more to teach their kids about money before they take candies, bubble gum, x-box, garments to the counter? Why do they only need to tell their kids about money and loot boxes? Why don’t they teach their kids about subscription before they buy membership and Premier Club offer of a game?

The entertainment industry has to follow the laws, of course, and they are doing exactly that. But apparently some people don’t know the industry and laws at all that they don’t know LAWS can’t undermine the industry’s freedom of creativity. At least, some editor of Polygon knew that and pointed out the doomy doom nature of Chris Lee’s bills. :D

Customers are always right? Blizzard know that. EA know that. Jagex know that. That’s why they put up more loot box and MTX because customers pay for them. Customers are not all equal. The rich customers who give a company more money always talk lounder and make the company, their shareholders and employees happier. :D:D:D

13-Mar-2018 18:34:28 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 19:04:33 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I wonder why nobody talks about these US "regulations" anymore?

Aha!!! Perhaps this is why:

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/03/24/hawaii-news/loot-box-bills-fail-to-advance/

All these "regulations" did not get a chance to tumble out of the gate... the bad news is they did not even get out of the gate. :D:D:D

They all failed before the deadline back in March because they hardly got any governments to support them!!!

So much for the invisible US "regulations". That's why everybody, company and player are still enjoying lootboxes as usual. :D:D:D

07-May-2018 17:18:26

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Don't worry about government regulations on gambling in the USA. They simply don't care and they can't do much even if they want to care since the Constitution will kill any such initiatives.

Imagine even real world gambling in real world healthy events that many Americans deemed their favorite pastime like Baseball can't be banned from the order of the Supreme Court because it is unconstituational,
there is no way that simulated "gambling" with virtual currencies in virtual worlds can be touched by Laws
.

Dreamers can dream on... but the reality is the US government can't do anything to stop loot boxes, not that they bother to try anyway. :D:D:D

15-May-2018 16:33:55

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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You need to realize the difference between gambling and games with gambling elements involved first. Supreme Court killed PASPA because of the 10th Amendment which delegates the powers to the People, not the governments, in regards to whether gambling is allowed. In the case of the Plantiff, New Jersey, their People did not and do not want gambling gone, so gambling is allowed to be run there. Not that anything the governments can do.

However, gambling is regulated in New Jersey, so sports betting will also have to be regulated in the future when companies offer to run such business.

In the case of Big Fish Casino, Washington did not ban them. The Court just ruled against them because they do not meet the requirements as a video games due to lack of other game elements. Not that Washington banned gambling or games with loot boxes obviously since you can see lotteries, licensed casinos, and all kinds of video games with loot boxes running there wildly. :D:D:D

So what happened to all those video games in Belgium and Netherlands with loot boxes? What happened to all the "bills" in the US? Uh Oh... a BIG NOTHING... even Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny know loot boxes are
PUSHING FORWARD
.

Oh sorry to further burst your bubbles... the Washington "bill" S 6266 is dead in the x-file list too. Go check it yourself. The Minnesota "bill" does not refer only to loot boxes but all in-games purchases. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Meaning EA's stocks are getting
PUSHED FORWARD
to historical high by Main Street and Wall Street following the news. :D:D:D

I think Jagex is jealous about the success of EA and ATVI since they are not in that league yet. However, fortunately for all us players, we still have TH: Dragon Chests to enjoy. :D:D:D

17-May-2018 18:41:22 - Last edited on 17-May-2018 19:02:13 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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You certainly failed to realize you don't need to prove your age for many "gambling" types of contests, e.g., buy a bottle of Coke and win a trip to Disney. There are regulations and again, again, and again x 9000, many regulations are not strictly enforced before they become 100% needed. Your 10 year old kid can go buy a bottle of Coke, win a Disney trip but he doesn't need proof of age and such to buy Coke. He only needs to show his age if he is the one who claims the prize. Any 10 year old kids can still play in online casinos now, which is more than likely happening now already. :D:D:D

There is nothing else "progressing" overseas other than something mentioned but nothing happened in real life over a month already in Belgium and Netherlands. In fact, in Belgium, the "development" seems to be actually going backward - from loot boxes being banned already to the BGA revealed they only made a recommendation for loot boxes to be regulated but not banned, much like what ESRB said they were going to do with in-game purchase. Sorry to Santa Claus, Bugs Bunny and journalists who don't know how to read government responses correctly...
even the Belgium Gambling Commission is not calling for a loot box ban but just an ESRB in game purchase kind of RECOMMENDATIONS
. :D:D:D

https://www.gamingcommission.be/opencms/export/sites/default/jhksweb_nl/documents/onderzoeksrapport-loot-boxen-Engels-publicatie.pdf

EA is not only telling eveybody they are pushing forward with loot boxes, they are actually doing that. They have actually put loot boxes back to Battlefront 2 in March. :D:D:D

The Washington Loot Box Bill is marked "X". Go check their definition in their official government website.
An "X" marking means that bill is not longer under consideration
. :D:D:D

18-May-2018 17:10:25 - Last edited on 18-May-2018 17:26:55 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The Minnesota Loot Box Bill refers in-game purchases to Loot Boxes, not anything different than ESRB. So even if RNGesus permits that bill to become "law", it only means Jagex and in fact all game developers with games of chances and any kind of in-game purchases including but not limited to loot boxes, subscriptions, Premier Club, DLC, music tracks, etc etc etc have to kick Minnesota out since there is no way for them to remove all kinds of games of chances such as Premier Club Vault, Event Mystery Boxes, Clue Scrolls Reward Boxes, etc... Don't worry though, like all the other "bills" in Washington, Indiana etc, nobody is even taking a look at all these garbage.
You can see all the COMPLETE BLANKS under the ACTIONS TAKEN
. :D:D:D

Oh, what happened to those "powerful governments" from Hawaii and New Hempshire? What happened to Chris Lee? Let met tell you... Lee totally threw loot boxes out from one of his "bill" and make it a proposal to regulate local contests such as the ones offered by McDoanlds and such to save himself from further embrassment. Maggie Hassan has kept her mouth totally shut after he told ESRB they made good step and she needed to talk with the "stakeholders"... but guess what? She has nothing more "stake" to talk about. Nothing anymore. :D:D:D

Meanwhile, even ESRB doesn't seem to care at all. They are totally taking their time even with the in-game purchase label they mentioned. Why? Because in the real world, nobody is actually crying loud for it. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Who's lying? Obviously we know. Why don't all these "journalists" show us the actual progress of these government "bills", (invisible) "laws" and more importantly RESULTS? They should just come forward with the TRUTH on the fates of these "bills". Why only reported "regulations" in Hawaii back in March but not the actual death of them? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

18-May-2018 17:17:29 - Last edited on 18-May-2018 17:40:22 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL. One of the Hawaiian Bill Chris Lee submitted was amended from Loot Boxes to local sweepstakes and contest just like the Coke look-under-the-bottle-cap crap. No relationship? LOL.... The fact that the Hawaiian government let the local contest "loot boxes" instead of the video game loot box bill survive clearly showed they care more about real life games of chances in real life business than loot boxes in video games like TH. :D:D:D

I never said Belgium did not consider box illegal. I just clearly pointed out that they did not ban them. In fact, they only recommend a few things like a specify label, reveal the odds of the prizes, parental guidance. Those are nothing new since we have heard the ESRB story already. So the bottom line is the "banning" of loot boxes as reported by many "sources" are definitely not what the Belgium Legislative division is look at... and read it again, it is just the recommendation of the Legislative of Belgium, not that Belgium have enforced, ruled and demanded anybody to stop their loot boxes, not even EA, Blizzard and Steam. :D:D:D:D:D:D

EA is not only "selling" skins in SW:BF2. They put the skins in loot boxes. Also, according to the various leaked sources, there will be loot boxes in Battlefield V, scheduled to be formally announced in a few days. Don't forget games of chance containing skins are also loot boxes. :D:D:D

Again, An "x-file" in Washington means no longer in consideration, not going to vote.

Read my post clearly about the Minnesota bill. I didn't say it did not exist. I mentioned NO ACTONS TAKEN, nothing scheduled, nothing pending, no review, no nothing whatsoever.
Read it again before you lie. :D:D:D

Who is guessing what is obviously. Chris Lee and Margie Hassan clearly haven't done a thing since the ESRB and total humilation of the Hawaiian Loot Box Bills. LOL. Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny may be sitting home and writing many "bills" for 3 months and counting too. :D:D:D:D:D:D

21-May-2018 19:22:20

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The good thing is process of the USA law is very transparent. They show you dates and progress of the bills. Nobody can lie about non-existing "progress". :D:D:D

Why should I sue anybody for just being "wrong"? It is not a crime to be "wrong". It is just a matter of ethics in the field of journalism. Some ethical journalists just point out facts even if the facts are strongly against their points of views. For instance, I praised that Polygon journalist for knowing and letting us know that there is an already existing ordinance that Chris Lee's failed bills will not survive even he wrote a 9000 word article to condemn loot boxes.

Guess what? Polygon also ignored the (false) "banning" of loot boxes in Belgium. If I were them, I would not willfully report the false banning report after I have seen the actual report from their government. :D:D:D

Again, how come nobody can tell us what these governments are working on what and when? Is it that hard to tell us when are they going to meet to discuss what? No problem though, their government websites are so transparent we can see the events thanks to the internet. If nothing is scheduled and no actions taken, even Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny can't make things up. :D:D:D

Meanwhile, in the real world or video game business, everybody is still doing business as usual. So Belgium doesn't like loot boxes in Overwatch? Bob Kotick said no probelemo. They are still putting a lot of loot boxes in their Anniversay Celebration. I bet the Belgium governments are welcome to go to their Anniversary event and buy some loot boxes too. :D:D:D

Oh... What happened to those people who are "scared" by the "GDC what censorship? what loot boxes? round table discussion"? I only see they talked about Unionization and 30 of them actually formed a Fair Play Alliance to smash stupid toxic useless trolls. :D:D:D

21-May-2018 19:33:04 - Last edited on 21-May-2018 20:04:15 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Can somebody also report some "holy" game companies they think don't have loot boxes to Belgium and such countries? Why not start with Bethesda who not only have loot boxes in their parent Zenimax's ESO for a long time unlike at least one user failed to see, they are actually making new inter-company loot boxes initiative with Twitch and such. How about buy ESO MTX items in Twitch Store and receive ESO loot boxes with a chance to win legendary mounts. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Hey, how can loot box "crap" like this happened? How come all the over 9000 game developers are not banned for loot boxes but actually getting more and more profitable with more and more new loot box initiatives everyday? :D:D:D

For those who are shaking or scratching their heads for a reason, let me tell you why? That's because the more they hear "government regulations and banning" without seeing anything at all other than Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny showering them with real world profits, the more they laugh and put up new loot box money making ideas everyday. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Comparatively, Jagex's TH is just in its infancy stage comparing to the real mature gaming business with long term monetization vision. Just a couple of quick examples... there is no pet skins in TH, and the TH skins don't even have tiers like rare/epic/legendary like many many other games. :D:D:D

21-May-2018 19:51:09 - Last edited on 21-May-2018 20:25:33 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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The failed Hawaiian Bill got changed from transparency of content in loot boxes in the virtual world to transparency of content of real items in brick and mortar businesses. It is 9000% obvious what real government care and what they don't. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Calling things illegal and therefore they are banned are totally nonsense as I have mentioned heaps and heaps of examples such as Mahjong is illegal and in fact criminally illegal in China according to the rules of their Communist Party that can never be changed as long as the country is ruled by such Communist party. However, Mahjong has never been banned in China. In fact, even 10 year old kids play Mahjong in public parks with real money all the time. :D:D:D

The Washing State Legislative has clearly defined their own marking system:

The House and Senate Rules Committees may place bills that will go no further in the process on the "X-file."


http://app.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/glossary.aspx


Put up a link to the front page of the entire Senate website doesn't hide the fact. :D:D:D

Again, who are going to meet when to talk about what in all these bills? Why are they not mentioned at their respective government websites? Why don't all these "journalists" find them out and let us know? Do they all think government actions are not important to report at all after the ESRB debacle? If Chris Lee or Margie Hassan have anything planning, why are these "journalists" so lazy to talk to them so they can report the facts? :D:D:D

Again, the Minnesota Bills links Loot Box to the in-game purchase nature of video games, they are not limited to loot boxes that can only be bought with real money.

How does Overwatch "game development" link to government regulations? Clearly, Blizzard just shrug with Belgium's threat on their loot boxes by showing them the loot boxes as usual business practice. :D:D:D

22-May-2018 16:27:57 - Last edited on 22-May-2018 17:32:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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In fact, even the Belgium government has not banned loot boxes. They did not even start or consider any prosecution process against anybody. They clearly said they do not intend to do anything before they talk with the developers and distributors before they consider any, and if any, actions:

"Minister of Justice Koen Geens intends to open a dialogue between the BGC, the developers, and distributors before moving forward with any potential prosecution."


They also said loot boxes only under some circumstances are considered illegal in their country, not all the loot boxes are illegal. So clearly, they are not targeting every loot box, but just some specific kinds of loot boxes, let alone banning them. :D:D:D

http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/belgian-gaming-commission-loot-boxes-1202806402/


So now somebody thinks ESO with loot boxes and they hope Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny will go after them in, well, you know when? Didn't somebody say Jagex should learn from what Bethesda do with their monetization model? :D:D:D:D:D:D

What about Netherlands? Nobody talked or even care about them since, well, over a month ago about their investigation into 4 loot box violators? Yes, I know, I know... nobody really care about loot boxes actually in the real world, but anyway, let me tell you some interesting development...

One of 4 unnamed violators there seems to be MU Origin by Webzen. Webzen revealed the fact by taking the game out of Netherlands by June 20, 4 days before the June 24 deadline. Perhaps Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny will be sad because it is a tiny game by a tiny Asian company with really tiny exposure in Netherlands that the country has targeted... and perhaps more sadly to them, that tiny developer doesn't even bother to make change. They just pick up their ball and go to more profitable places. :D:D:D:D:D:D

22-May-2018 16:45:41 - Last edited on 22-May-2018 16:56:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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SumOFab Itch said:
Tl,dr.

Th ftw


That's pretty much what President of ESA Gallapher just said about loot boxes.

TL;DR about the complaints on the harmful effects of loot boxes because all the real world stats suggested players voted with their wallets for loot boxes. :D:D:D

Also TL;DR on the
"lowest denominator complaints in the world" from the lowly Belgium and Netherlands
while the rest of the world's biggest powers like UK and New Zealand don't have any problems. :D:D:D

He also hinted on the rights of creativity of the gaming industry and monetiztaion models can't be undermined. That's true at least under the protection of Laws in the USA, and it is hardly one of those lowest denominator part of the world. :D:D:D

26-May-2018 17:26:00 - Last edited on 26-May-2018 17:27:07 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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An update to the actual nature of the Netherlands loot box "regulation" and its effect on apparently one of the 4 unnamed "violators" - MU Origin.

Upon further clarification from Webzen's official announcement. They actually did not have to, and are not going to, terminate service in Netherlands, and nowhere but Netherlands, after June 20, 2018. They are only going to pull the MU Origin apps out of App store in Netherlands, but players in that country can still download the game outside the app store in Netherlands and play as usual. Of course, it also means anything already installed on one's mobile device will not be affected whatsoever.

"Hello, warriors.

We are truly saddened to announce that we will discontinue service of MU Origin in the Netherlands from June 20th on.

Due to the recent decision of The Netherlands Gaming Authority against in-game loot boxes being imposed on June 20th, MU Origin will no longer be able to be searched or downloaded on the Netherlands' Google Play Store and Apple App Store.

However, We will continue providing the latest version of MU Origin through both App markets in all service regions beside the Netherlands, and MU Origin can still be downloaded and played.

Furthermore, it will be able to access and play the game regardless of the region if the latest version of MU Origin distributed by Webzen is installed on the device.

We are deeply sorry for any inconvenience which it may cause, and always thank you for playing.

Thank you for your understanding.
MU Origin"


http://forum.webzen.com/forum/en/mu-origin-english/mu-origin-english-forum/announcements/2358263-notice-service-discontinuation-in-the-netherlands-06-20-2018~

So what can the Netherlands loot box regulations do to the gamers of the 4 unnmaed games based on that? Well, virtually nothing, as long as they are willing to download the games outside of the App and Google stores. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

29-May-2018 17:16:51 - Last edited on 29-May-2018 17:28:28 by Dilbert2001

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